Author Topic: 1st Lt. Ehren Watada - Hero or Disgrace  (Read 2165 times)

Offline Thrawn

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1st Lt. Ehren Watada - Hero or Disgrace
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2006, 03:06:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Russian
Since when does soldier needs to think?


Nuremburg

Offline SMIDSY

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1st Lt. Ehren Watada - Hero or Disgrace
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2006, 03:08:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
Congress didn't declare war.


in the form either of a declaration of war, giving reasons, or of an ultimatum with conditional declaration of war.

you guys need to learn to read.

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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1st Lt. Ehren Watada - Hero or Disgrace
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2006, 03:15:10 PM »
So long as they can determine that he actually believes the war in Iraq is illegal, then by default his orders to serve there are illegal.  You cant fault him for refusing to obey a illegal order.  Ship him to Afghanistan and let him fight there.  He's willing to fight, just unwilling to obey what he feels is improper orders.  

Problem here for the President is, if he allows this soldier to disobey becuase he feels his orders are illegal, he opens the door to someone else saying the war truly IS illegal.  That cannot be allowed.  I'm not Bush bashing here, or second guessing the war.  I'm just saying that we base alot of our authority in Iraq right now on the premise that what we are doing is right.  Toppling Saddam, installing a new govt., supporting them until they have an army and police force ready to take over, etc.  If our govt. allows one soldier to have that POV, legally they are admitting it is true.  Or at least someone will argue that way.  Now you will have families of dead soldiers suing the US, families of dead Iraqis suing the US ......................

What about the impact on Saddam's trial also?  If someone can claim that the war is illegal, he can claim he was improperly removed from office, all sorts of ways that could mess up that trial.  Nooooo, they cant allow that one.  Unfortunately, this kid is going to prison, he'll be dishonorably discharged, and he'll be covered up as quickly as possible.  Its a shame too, good family.  I admire him for standing up for his beliefs, but they are going to earn him a deep dark hole with bars on the front.

Offline Russian

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1st Lt. Ehren Watada - Hero or Disgrace
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2006, 03:15:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
Nuremburg



When there's LOAC, soldier doesn't need to think.
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/wars/a/loac.htm :aok

Offline Thrawn

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1st Lt. Ehren Watada - Hero or Disgrace
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2006, 03:24:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SMIDSY
in the form either of a declaration of war, giving reasons, or of an ultimatum with conditional declaration of war.



"VII. Those declarations are either conditional or absolute. A conditional declaration is that which is coupled with a demand of restitution or redress. Under the name of restitution, the FECIAL LAW of Rome, that is the LAW RESPECTING DECLARATIONS OF WAR, comprehended not only the claims, which OWNERSHIP established, but the prosecution Of EVERY right arising from criminal or civil causes."

http://constitution.org/gro/djbp_303.htm

Congress didn't declare war, coupled with demands of restitution or otherwise.

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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1st Lt. Ehren Watada - Hero or Disgrace
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2006, 03:27:57 PM »
French fusier commando saying :  "Thinking is already desobeing".:D

On a more seriously note, I believe illegal war is not his call. He has to go where is politicians send him. His say is on illegal orders, such has randomly executing a mother and her kid.
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
------------------------

Offline AquaShrimp

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1st Lt. Ehren Watada - Hero or Disgrace
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2006, 03:33:38 PM »
I dont blame him for not wanting to go.  Three years in, and theres more IEDs than ever.  I certainly wouldn't to ride around Baghdad in a metal box filled with ammunition and fuel.  This is reminiscent of the 8th Airforce forcing B-17s to fly over Germany unescorted.

Offline SMIDSY

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1st Lt. Ehren Watada - Hero or Disgrace
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2006, 04:23:04 PM »
Thrawn, i was not talking about the US Constitution, because nothing in the article sugested that this fella said anything about that document. i was refuting his claim that preemptive attacks were in violation of the 1907 Hague Convention relative to the Opening of Hostilities.


i have not yet stated an opinion, only facts.


ALSO
the Iraq War is legal under the Constitution because it is classified as a police action, not a war. police actions do not need the approval of congress.




PS
Iraq did not sign the Hague Convention relative to the Opening of Hostilities, thus it does not apply to them.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 04:29:50 PM by SMIDSY »

Offline Yeager

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1st Lt. Ehren Watada - Hero or Disgrace
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2006, 04:26:18 PM »
but congress is providing the funding....several hundred billion so far.

If this guys oath gives him the room to weasel out of his commitment then fine, but I suspect he will be courts martialed and sent to military prison.  We shall see.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline midnight Target

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1st Lt. Ehren Watada - Hero or Disgrace
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2006, 04:31:57 PM »
He has every right to go to jail for his beliefs.

And yes, he should go to jail.

Offline GtoRA2

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1st Lt. Ehren Watada - Hero or Disgrace
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2006, 04:32:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
He has every right to go to jail for his beliefs.

And yes, he should go to jail.



I agree.

Offline lukster

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1st Lt. Ehren Watada - Hero or Disgrace
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2006, 04:36:06 PM »
Send him to Afghanistan and put him on ordinance disposal duty.

Offline Goomba

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1st Lt. Ehren Watada - Hero or Disgrace
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2006, 04:47:25 PM »
He may be well-meaning, but he is seriously misguided.

His actions on this matter are disgraceful...to family, flag and country.

I tend to like Frenchy's thinking on this;  He has a moral duty to flatly refuse an illegal order, like "go shoot those schoolchildren", and is a criminal if he does not.

OTOH, it is simply not a soldier's place to claim a personal right to determine whether or not the entire military action is legal or not.  I do not believe we want to even consider the precedent of asking each and every sworn serviceman/woman whether or not they approve of their orders to deploy.

Offline Debonair

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1st Lt. Ehren Watada - Hero or Disgrace
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2006, 04:48:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AquaShrimp
....This is reminiscent of the 8th Airforce forcing B-17s to fly over Germany unescorted.


no it isnt.
its more like kg51 being sent to london
bush = hitler
rummy = goering
lyndie england = shultzie

Offline 101ABN

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1st Lt. Ehren Watada - Hero or Disgrace
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2006, 05:20:43 PM »
chickenchit!!!