Airbus A380 to be delayed another 6-7 months

[Fishu]

Originally posted by beet1e
Yes Paxil! I think it will succeed, but as a hub-to-hub aircraft. It's tailor made for the Asia-Pacific region - South-East Asia, Australia, New Zealand and across the Pacific to the western US - an area where there are vast distances to be covered, but with relatively few airports and therefore no complex labyrinth of routes.

It might become useful also on the route between Europe and China, and Asian region in general, like India for example. Both countries have a growing economy which means more tourists back and forth, along with a good bunch of business customers.

[RAIDER14]

how many gallons could the A380 hold if they made it into a air refueling tanker or if they made it into a fire fighting aircraft like the evergreen 747??

[Golfer]

dunno...couldn't you just ask the pilots of the southwest airplanes you jumpseat on to help snuff out a fire?

[Fishu]

Originally posted by RAIDER14
how many gallons could the A380 hold if they made it into a air refueling tanker or if they made it into a fire fighting aircraft like the evergreen 747??

Supposedly A330 is the air refueling bus of the airbus family.

[RAIDER14]

Euro Air Tanker Site

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by beet1e
Ripsnort,

OK, this is a new story, not the original A380 delay story from about a year ago, which was discussed at length in this thread. I've just reread that thread, and it's quite interesting, largely because of my own contributions.

Driving into LHR airport on Sunday to meet Mietla, I could hardly avoid noticing the big signs up all over the place, advertising the Singapore Airlines deployment of A380 services later this year. So this time I did read CMC's article (I was pressed for time earlier - sorry) but even in that article it says  which suggests that the signs bearing the SIA advertisement at LHR are indeed correct, and that A380 deployment will take place within 2006 as originally planned, and that maybe the delays are not too serious for the other airlines.

I think its much more serious than just Singapore, Beet1e. Read the bold areas below:

PARIS - Airlines around the world punished Airbus on Wednesday for delays in the delivery of its A380 superjumbo, demanding compensation, reconsidering orders — and in one case, striking a major deal with its rival Boeing Co.

Shares in Airbus' parent company crashed and Boeing's soared as repercussions of the production problems with the world's biggest passenger plane resonated throughout the industry.

They also raised questions about the European planemaker's management and strategy, and the future of the double-decker A380. Boeing is staking its bets on a smaller, more fuel-efficient model.  

Singapore Airlines, one of the world's top carriers and the first to buy the A380, said it was unhappy with the delays Airbus announced Tuesday. It demanded compensation and, on Wednesday, worsened the blow by announcing it would buy 20 Boeing 787-9 aircraft worth $4.52 billion and take options on another 20 planes.

Emirates Airlines, another sought-after buyer, said it was reconsidering its order of 45 A380s. Australia's Qantas Airways said it was seeking talks with Airbus over its orders for 12 A380s and wants some of its money back. Malaysia Airlines said it was reviewing terms of its deal for six of the planes.

Airbus parent European Aeronautic Defense & Space Co. saw billions of dollars wiped off its value Wednesday as shares plummeted by 26 percent to close at 18.80 euros ($23.63), after it warned that operating profit would be cut by about 500 million euros ($625 million) each year between 2007 and 2010.

Shares in Boeing Co., meanwhile, rose $5.03, or 6.5 percent, to close at $82.01 on the New York Stock Exchange.

The dismal day for Airbus reflected a sharp shift in the Toulouse, France-based company's fortunes since the 555-passenger A380 took a triumphant maiden flight last year over the Pyrenees. Airbus overtook Boeing in order numbers in 2001 and in deliveries in 2003 and until recently looked in robust shape.

But the anger fueled by Tuesday's announcement of production bottlenecks with the plane's electrical systems — the second major delay for the $300 million A380 — suggests a less rosy future for the planemaker.

"Boeing is eating Airbus' lunch, certainly this year. And they'll do it again next year and for the foreseeable future, unless Airbus can pull a rabbit out of a hat," said Jim Smith, aviation analyst and editor of Jane's Transport Finance.

It was the second Airbus project to falter in recent years, after the A350, which it hoped would be the answer to Boeing's 787.

The Singapore-Boeing deal stung especially deep because Airbus had hoped Singapore Airlines would be one of the first and biggest customers for the A350. But airline dissatisfaction with the A350 has forced Airbus to redesign some of its parts and consider a costly overhaul, delaying its launch for several years.

Airbus insisted Wednesday that it was not the A380 itself but minor production problems at fault for the delay.

"There have been minor production issues which have accumulated into a large number and require a complete, very detailed rethinking of the installation process of wires and harnesses," said Thore Prang, spokesman for the company in Hamburg. "It has nothing to do with the aircraft."

The A380 delay "couldn't be a worse timing for Airbus," said aviation analyst Richard Pinkham of the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation. "Especially as it comes on the heels of the PR problems they had with the A350."

With the A380, Airbus was taking a risk, since only a few of the world's airports have runways long enough and terminals that can be modified to deal with its double deckers, analysts said.

Airbus wagered that the airline industry would increasingly offer large flights to international hubs. But Boeing bet that air travel would be marked by the need for fuel efficiency and long-haul flights and is focusing on the 330-passenger 787.

"EADS made a strategic error by opting for a jumbo-sized jet rather than a fuel efficient model, especially if the price of oil increases further," said Matthieu Raimbault of French brokerage Viel Tradition.

Singapore was the first carrier to buy the A380, ordering 10 with an option to purchase another 15. Airbus said the first delivery to Singapore was still expected by the end of this year.

But deliveries will likely be limited to nine in 2007 instead of the 20 to 25 initially planned, Airbus said, with an additional shortfall of five to nine A380 deliveries expected in 2008 and "around five" in 2009.

Emirates Airlines said it was told to expect a six-month delay. "We are considering our position and will be engaging with the manufacturer over the next few weeks," the airline said in a statement.

Airbus' chief commercial officer, John Leahy, confirmed that the company will incur more late delivery penalties, but declined to provide a figure. It could in theory also face order cancellations.

EADS co-CEO Noel Forgeard, who in 2000 oversaw the launch of the A380 as the head of Airbus, deflected suggestions that the setback could cost him his job.

"We have now to find the right ways forward," Forgeard said in a conference call Wednesday.

The troubles at Airbus damage the credibility of EADS management and may bleed over into its defense business.

Already they hit BAE Systems PLC, which owns 20 percent of Airbus but has been seeking to sell its stake. BAE dismissed concerns that the Airbus problems would hurt the price it could get for its stake, and its shares came off earlier lows to end the day down 1.1 percent at 345 pence ($6.35) on the London Stock Exchange.

[weaselsan]

Originally posted by Fishu
A rumour says that Airbus didn't want to include reversers at all, but did so due to FAA requirements.
However that is only a rumour, so take it with lots of salt.

They had to install the thrusters...The pilot had to pull on the stick so hard that the wood wore off on the tires to quickly.

[LePaul]

Rip, why are you confusing Beetle with factual info?  You know this will be spun into something....entertaining.

snipped from Yahoo news...


The news comes amid revelations that Forgeard and his family and other top EADS managers sold off shares before Airbus announced the delays, which sent the company's stock tumbling and angered airlines worldwide.

Shares in EADS plunged more than 25 percent Wednesday after the delay and a profit warning, shaving millions of dollars off the company's value. Stock prices rallied Thursday, closing at 20.00 euros ($25.16), up 6.8 percent.

They remained well below the price of mid-March, when Forgeard, his family and other managers sold off large packets of shares, according to filings with France's stock market regulator AMF.

Forgeard exercised 2.5 million euros ($3.1 million) worth of options at 32.01 euros ($40.21), and three of his children each sold 1.4 million euros ($1.75 million) worth of shares in the same period, at 32.82 euros ($41.23), according to the regulator. Board members Francois Auque and Jean-Paul Gut also sold shares.

Lagardere's company, Lagardere SA, also sold half of its 15 percent stake in EADS earlier this year, but he insisted that he had no idea of the A380's troubles until this week.

"We had no information," he was quoted in Le Monde as saying. "If we had been dishonest, we would not have sold 7.5 percent but all of our shares."

EADS said Forgeard's share sales were not informed by the A380's production delays and that all the transactions by management fully meet the company's compliance rules. Board members have only three weeks each quarter when they can trade their shares, EADS said.

A representative declined to comment further and would not say whether the sales were on a predetermined schedule.

"All of this seriously hurts the image of this European jewel" and "sharpens the teeth of Boeing," the daily Liberation wrote Thursday. "And it gives a bit of grist for the mill ... for the bards of Euroskepticism."

The production delays raised questions about the A380's future, as rival Boeing Co. is staking its bets on a smaller, more fuel-efficient model.

Airlines worldwide demanded compensation, reconsidered orders — and crucial customer Singapore Airlines slapped Airbus in the face with a deal Wednesday for 20 Boeing 787-9 aircraft worth $4.52 billion. Airbus had hoped Singapore would buy the A350, a planned competitor to the 787 that has been plagued with problems.

[Ripsnort]

Wow! Wonder if they'll cook 'em like they did Martha Stewart...

[beet1e]

Too early to say.

Singapore Airlines, one of the world's top carriers and the first to buy the A380, said it was unhappy with the delays Airbus announced Tuesday. It demanded compensation and, on Wednesday, worsened the blow by announcing it would buy 20 Boeing 787-9 aircraft worth $4.52 billion and take options on another 20 planes.

That's a sizeable order, so it's funny that there's nothing about it on the fleet info section of the Singapore Airlines website.

As for the claim that "Qantas Airways said it was seeking talks with Airbus over its orders for 12 A380s and wants some of its money back.", The Qantas newsdesk web page reports the story thus:

The Chief Executive Officer of Qantas, Mr Geoff Dixon, said today that Qantas would hold discussions with Airbus in the next two weeks after a thorough internal review of the implications for Qantas of the delay.

"Our discussions with Airbus will centre around the new delivery timetable, competitive issues, compensation and possible short-term replacement aircraft," he said.

Mr Dixon said Qantas would not be able to assess the full impact of the delay until completing its internal review.

"We would hope to alleviate some of the difficulties by deferring the retirement of aircraft, redirecting capacity and securing replacement capacity."

Um, I didn't see anything in there about Qantas asking for its money back, which tallies with the Qantas announcement that discussions will be held with Airbus after a thorough internal review. This story appeared on the Qantas newsdesk barely 2 days ago - hardly time to complete "a thorough internal review".

So I think we need to wait to hear it from the airlines themselves. Did someone say something about "factual info"?

Yes, well even though we all know that the papers and other news sources always tell the truth, I think I'll wait to hear it straight from the horse's mouth.

[Debonair]

Originally posted by


A380 is teh ghey

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by beet1e
 Um, I didn't see anything in there about Qantas asking for its money back, which tallies with the Qantas announcement that discussions will be held with Airbus after a thorough internal review. This story appeared on the Qantas newsdesk barely 2 days ago - hardly time to complete "a thorough internal review".
 

Hmm, maybe the british interpret the following words differently than the rest of the world? Or it could be just the ignorant do?

 competitive issues, compensation

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Hmm, maybe the british interpret the following words differently than the rest of the world?   [/B]

Could it be that Americans have their own interpretations of certain words, which differ from the rest of the world? Classic example: football. I think I picked a good time to post that one.

[Sparks]

I think the delays are bad news but there is a lot of posturing going on between the companies in order to negoitiate the compensation terms.  

Also I don't believe there is a lot of metal cut on the 787 yet and so chest beating from Seattle is a bit premature I think. The 787 will have it fair share of new technology problems I'm sure (although much of the materials technology has been funded through the backdoor of X32).

The interesting point for me in that article is the emphasis on the problems with the electrical installation.  I am an aircraft electrician and although I haven't personally been on it I work with many who have.  The problem is two fold - where it's being built and the complexity and size of the electrical install.

1. There simply isn't the size of skilled labour force in the Toulouse area to support what they are doing there - A330, A340 and now A380 production. There is now a constant requirement for contract workers for Toulouse. A large proportion of the UK contract electrical pool is over there already - rates are increasing to attract people - any of you US aircraft workers fancy it ?? - rates are now between £23 - £26 per hour and working week is limited by French unions to 44 but you may get pay for 50-60.  Electrical installers are particularly hard to find.

2. The Electrical systems are massive - power generation for a start is completely different due to the need for such large amounts. The flight deck systems are all new. The cabin is effectively two aircraft in one - two 300 Pax aircraft one on top of the other but with todays pax expectations everyone wants the latest IFE, seat power, mood lighting, internet access etc.  and of course the distances involved are huge.

Basically it should have been built in Germany or the UK where there is a skilled workforce and the Elecrical system was not well enough planned ahead.

787 will not have the scale issue to overcome but I think the new materials technology is going to raise it's own problems and the cabin systems are going to be ....... interesting  - I've personally seen some of what's proposed and oh boy are we going to have fun LOL !

[Dinger]

Yeah Beetle. Airbus sold every one of their A380s at list price, and the customers will be happy to wait a couple more years. They're not seeking compensation and making a lot of noise about cancelling contracts so they can reduce their economic exposure. They're just glad to be part of the team.