1st Lt. Ehren Watada - Hero or Disgrace

[BUG_EAF322]

If he is so honorable the least he could do is lead his men to a respectable war.
He doesnt make the litle "difference" now.

[Maverick]

Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Maverick, there are some large trucks that have booms and heavy armor that can disable and detonate IEDs from a safe distance.

Toad, the figures are 18,500 wounded, 2,500 dead, with 30 to 40% of the casualities coming from IED attacks.

The specialty vehicles did not arrive in any numbers back in 2004.

Really. Perhaps you have some links and photos to indicate the vehicle.

FWIW the typical doctrinal response to an explosve device is to detonate it in place not try to pick up a vehicle or other object with a bomb of indeterminate size and construction then move it through an urban area to some allegedly safe place to detonate it.

[AquaShrimp]

Originally posted by Toad
So about 800 dead and 7000 wounded from IED's? Let's just accept your numbers. Now go ahead and compare those to your latest statement whiche, when we substitute the new "Vietnam" allegory for the "B-17's" basically says:;

"I certainly wouldn't to ride around Baghdad in a metal box filled with ammunition and fuel. This is reminiscent of the most heavily booby-trapped areas in Vietnam."

OK, how reminiscent? You're saying that 30-40% of all casualties in VietNam were due to booby traps? Got anything to back that up?


Now as to arrival of the Cougars and Buffalos.... are you now qualifying your previous statement? You admit you're simply wrong?

 As of June 2006, there are more than 130 Cougars and Buffalos in Afghanistan and Iraq.  First vehicles were shipped on August 2005. A follow-on $50.8 million order for 79 additional vehicles was released by the US Navy on May 2nd, 2006 to be delivered within a year, by May 2007.

http://www.defense-update.com/products/c/cougar.htm

My source shows the cougars and buffalos were not shipped until late 2005.

As for the Vietnam War analogy, yes I do have figures to back it up.  Total Americans killed in action as a result of combat during the Vietnam War is 38,432.    Total combat deaths from mines and traps is 7,429.  That comes out to 19%.  So theres nearly twice the risk of mines and traps in Iraq than there was in Vietnam.

[Toad]

First:

Force Protection, Inc. Commemorates 9/11, Announces Vehicle Deployment During 'South Carolina Strikes Back’ Ceremony

Force Protection is the company that makes Buffalo and Cougar vehicles.

We are delighted to announce today that 14 of Force Protection’s Cougar vehicles will be deployed by Christmas to the Marines in Iraq

The Buffalo Becomes Part of the Pentagon's IED Team

Force Protection Inc. shipped 19 Buffalo vehicles to the Army by Nov. 24, <2004> with an additional three due by the end of the year, said Jeff Child, a company spokesman. The base price per Buffalo is about $740,000, he said.

Buffalos in service in the two combat theaters sustained several hits from mines or roadside bombs. According to information posted on the manufacturer’s Web site, those hits caused no deaths and only a couple of minor injuries among troops in the vehicles.

In a March incident in Afghanistan, a Buffalo hit an anti-tank mine. The center axle and two tires were replaced, and the vehicle was back in operation the next week, Child said

Clearly, Cougars and Buffalo were deployed with US forces in 2004. There was a Buffalo in Afghanistan in March.

Basically, less than a year after the "invasion" part of Iraqi Freedom, there were Buffalo in the field.

Not bad for going from zero to deployed in ~ eleven months. I think, considering the US Pentagon procurement system, it's amazing.

As for VietNam booby traps vs Iraqi IED's, I think it's pretty clear the VC and NVA chose to fight a different war than the Iraqi terrorists (yeah, you blow up mosques and funeral processions, you're just plain old terrorists). In VietNam there was much more open combat; in Iraq it's almost all IED's.