Author Topic: Most Dangerous Off-Road Vehicle  (Read 758 times)

Offline Yeager

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10167
Most Dangerous Off-Road Vehicle
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2006, 11:13:38 PM »
Life is the leading cause of death.  Be smart because this is the only shot you get.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline eagl

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6769
Most Dangerous Off-Road Vehicle
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2006, 11:22:03 PM »
The thing is, you call the vehicles themselves "treacherous", when they're not any more treacherous than my wife's crappy corolla.  They're perfectly fine when operated in a safe fashion, but give a kid the keys or operate it in an unsafe manner, and you're just asking for trouble.

Life itself is treacherous, not some vehicle.  ATV deaths amount for just a small fraction of child and young adult fatalities nationwide, because most parents know that it's stupid to let a kid use one unsupervised.  That said, even the most talented person, whether they're a child or an adult, will make occasional mistakes.  Sometimes those mistakes are fatal.  

How many adults have you seen run their cars off the road when it's raining or snowing?  Do you then call the cars treacherous and curse the salesman who sold it to them?  That happens far far far more often than kids killing themselves on ATVs, but somehow the fatal results of bad driving in a regular car is "ok", but fatal results of bad ATV driving is the ATVs fault.  That's a load of BS but people get all excited waving their arms around, and it makes them feel better pointing the finger at the evil salesman or the evil ATV manufacturer.

Where is the outrage against the evil automakers for enticing us to buy and drive cars that can go 2 times the legal speed limit?  There are around 16,000 fatalities in traffic accidents EVERY YEAR, so why is that OK, but a handful of ATV fatalities involving people who shouldn't have even been driving them is blamed on the ATV instead of the person driving or the person who let them drive?
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Maverick

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13958
Most Dangerous Off-Road Vehicle
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2006, 11:58:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
fatal results of bad ATV driving is the ATVs fault.  That's a load of BS but people get all excited waving their arms around, and it makes them feel better pointing the finger at the evil salesman or the evil ATV manufacturer.

Where is the outrage against the evil automakers for enticing us to buy and drive cars that can go 2 times the legal speed limit?  There are around 16,000 fatalities in traffic accidents EVERY YEAR, so why is that OK, but a handful of ATV fatalities involving people who shouldn't have even been driving them is blamed on the ATV instead of the person driving or the person who let them drive?


Not making fun of you and I don't want to hijack the thread but this is not the only kind of circumstance where this type of response is seen. It's seen very frequently where we blame the instrument / machine / weapon whatever for the fault of the person operating it. Then someone raises a hue and cry that we must ban the object to save lives because people aren't smart or competant to operate them properly 100% of the time. All those who don't misuse the item must be "punished" by a ban of ownership for the misdeeds of the few that do misuse it. Makes sense right?. Hell no it doesn't but that doesn't stop the bleating of save this or that by banning this and that.

There are approximately 40,000 deaths atributed to motor vehicles each year in the US but those aren't critical because we term those deaths the result of an "accident". See if it's an "accident" there's no one to blame, it's not really a "bad" thing someone did, it was an "ACCIDENT". Collisions are not an "accident" over 90% of the time, they are the results of negligence. Intentional or not it's still negligence, but we can't blame the people because of the semantics of refering to it as an "accident".

It's all bovine excrement and it's time there was a change to holding people responsible for their own damn actions, instead of calling it an "accident" and blowing it off. Don't hold your breath waiting for it however.

When a pilot screws up the results are called pilot error. Perhaps we should start doing the same thing and refer to collisions for what they really are, driver error.

<----- picks up soap box and hobbles off stage right
« Last Edit: June 17, 2006, 12:00:41 AM by Maverick »
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline eagl

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6769
Most Dangerous Off-Road Vehicle
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2006, 11:59:41 PM »
You're right Mav.  I was using autos as my example because of their similiarity to ATVs.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Brenjen

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1514
Most Dangerous Off-Road Vehicle
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2006, 12:04:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
Sorry for the confusion Hang...it was an ATV I was talking about.

It's hard to educate someone who's already 25 years old.  He was a risk taker and had caused his family a fair amount of grief during his life.   Sad but true.


Brenjen, what area of Arkansas are you from?

Regards, Shuckins


 North central...Searcy to be exact.

 Edit: ATV's are not intended for hard surfaces, they are difficult to control on those. Pavement especially, the tires need to be able to slide to steer correctly believe it or not.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2006, 12:07:14 AM by Brenjen »

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
Most Dangerous Off-Road Vehicle
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2006, 12:05:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
The thing is, you call the vehicles themselves "treacherous", when they're not any more treacherous than my wife's crappy corolla.  They're perfectly fine when operated in a safe fashion, but give a kid the keys or operate it in an unsafe manner, and you're just asking for trouble.

Life itself is treacherous, not some vehicle.  ATV deaths amount for just a small fraction of child and young adult fatalities nationwide, because most parents know that it's stupid to let a kid use one unsupervised.  That said, even the most talented person, whether they're a child or an adult, will make occasional mistakes.  Sometimes those mistakes are fatal.  

How many adults have you seen run their cars off the road when it's raining or snowing?  Do you then call the cars treacherous and curse the salesman who sold it to them?  That happens far far far more often than kids killing themselves on ATVs, but somehow the fatal results of bad driving in a regular car is "ok", but fatal results of bad ATV driving is the ATVs fault.  That's a load of BS but people get all excited waving their arms around, and it makes them feel better pointing the finger at the evil salesman or the evil ATV manufacturer.

Where is the outrage against the evil automakers for enticing us to buy and drive cars that can go 2 times the legal speed limit?  There are around 16,000 fatalities in traffic accidents EVERY YEAR, so why is that OK, but a handful of ATV fatalities involving people who shouldn't have even been driving them is blamed on the ATV instead of the person driving or the person who let them drive?




I don't want em banned I just want em licenced

 We are licenced to drive a car and are required to take a skill test. (and should be more stringent)

If you read my previous post person i was describing had no business on a motorcycle.

I agree the vehicles themselves are not treacherous. If you add an unskilled rider and use in an inappropriate local , it becomes a serious hazard.


Bronk
See Rule #4

Offline Maverick

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13958
Most Dangerous Off-Road Vehicle
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2006, 12:08:17 AM »
Bronk,

In the vast majority of the 40k fatalities each year the drivers were all licensed. The license does not prohibit stupidity. In addition there are those who will drive even though their license has been revoked or suspended because they already had been shown in a court that they were stupid. Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline eagl

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6769
Most Dangerous Off-Road Vehicle
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2006, 12:14:03 AM »
I think licensing would be too restrictive.  ATVs of the appropriate size and power are fine tools and toys when properly supervised.  Plus those parents who let their kids use them unsupervised will just get them licensed themselves, and then let their kids use them anyhow.

For example, I think it would be perfectly safe to let a 6 year old ride one of those small 1/4 or 1/2 hp "ATV" karts or motorbikes if properly supervised, because adults can run just as fast as the little suckers can drive.  As the kid gets older, they can be taught to safely ride bigger and more powerful ATVs.  But can you imagine the govt sticking their neck out to create a licensing scheme that would allow such a logical training progression?  Not likely.  They would set a minimum age and very restrictive rules, ensuring that it's impossible to legally ride and learn how to ride until you're too old to develop the reflexes that any really good rider learns as a child.  Now THAT is BS in my opinion.  The govt is simply too rigid and any rules they could make would be far too restrictive to be of any use.

Of course, the only people who want such laws are the bleeding-hearts who don't use ATVs or other off-road vehicles anyhow, so why the hell can't they take a big cup of STFU and go away?  Just let people live their life without forcing everyone else to follow your own personal rules.

You can't legislate common sense, and that's what pisses me off the most about busybodies who run around after tragedies blaming the vehicle or the manufacturer.  Like Mav said, it's about personal responsibility and you don't teach responsibility by passing laws that remove all ability to exercise judgement when conducting your own business.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
Most Dangerous Off-Road Vehicle
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2006, 12:21:59 AM »
Yea your right.
I just hate to see a kid get killed because he had more B***s than brains.
I think most atv dealers offer a safety course now. I guess most don't take em up on this offer.

In RI to get your motorcycle endorsement you have to complete the safety course.
Has 2 types  advanced and beginner.

Back when went through it. They booted a guy down to the beginner class when he dropped the bike .  The funny part was he was told just to roll back a bit while sitting on it.


Bronk
« Last Edit: June 17, 2006, 12:24:57 AM by Bronk »
See Rule #4

Offline MrCoffee

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 934
Most Dangerous Off-Road Vehicle
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2006, 01:29:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Sorry to hear about the loss of your friends son.  Hopefully other youg men in the community can learn from this.


Yes it was a tragic loss.

Offline MrCoffee

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 934
Most Dangerous Off-Road Vehicle
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2006, 01:36:59 AM »
Really makes you think, I mean anyone of us could just die tomorrow. Eternal darkness.

Offline rpm

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15661
Most Dangerous Off-Road Vehicle
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2006, 01:47:31 AM »
4 Wheelers + pavement = disaster. Same with dirtbikes. Knobby tires do not react well on asphault. It took me a couple of times to realise that when I was young.

Sorry to hear about your friends. I know a couple guys that have had serious 3 and 4 wheeler accidents. Luckily they recovered.
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
Stay thirsty my friends.

Offline lasersailor184

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8938
Most Dangerous Off-Road Vehicle
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2006, 02:32:49 AM »
"HEY!  YOU!  YEAH YOU!  OUT OF THE GENE POOL!  NOW!"


If you act like a retard, occasionally you're going to get caught with your dick flapping in the wind.  Set and Point: Ben Roethlisberger.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Shuckins

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3412
Most Dangerous Off-Road Vehicle
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2006, 08:34:27 AM »
This is too crazy...too wierd.

Got a phone call last night just as I was going to bed.

One of the ladies who was at my friend's home helping greet the well-wishers and handle the flowers and food and all such...left shortly after we did...and was killed when she ran off the shoulder of the highway and flipped her vehicle.

Two other vehicle accidents occurred yesterday as well...both at the same intersection but at different times.

Absolute carnage on our highways yesterday.

:(

Regards, Shuckins

Offline Thud

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 476
Most Dangerous Off-Road Vehicle
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2006, 08:44:43 AM »
Damn shame all these accidents and losses. Always seems harder when someone close was having fun, was on trip or on a vacation, when they were supposed to relax and enjoy themselves...

Here for big quads a motorcycle license is required, not sure though that would reduce the risks considerably