Diesel car wins Le Mans 24 Hours

[Thud]

Originally posted by mora
The difference in vehicle mass is 5% at most. I don't see a problem in the power transaction either. Most people here wouldn't notice a difference between a modern diesel and a gasoline.

That is not true, if you take a performance saloon for example, the weight difference will be close to 100kg's on a typical 1500-ish empty car-weight. The difference in weight distribution is especially notable in the handling characteristics since the heavy diesel engine will put severe pressure on the front wheels.
As to the overall engine characteristics, even the most advanced high-end diesels these days are easily recognisable in both sound and power delivery.

Maybe in a few years they will also eliminate the last differences compared to petrol since they're making these leaps now. But presently, petrol engines are just a bit more smooth.

[Sparks]

As to the overall engine characteristics, even the most advanced high-end diesels these days are easily recognisable in both sound and power delivery.

How can you say that nowadays ?? I drove the 2.0L Golf turbo deisel and it was no different to a petrol.  Superb engine.

[Debonair]

Le Mans is a great flick, maybe my favorite Steve McQueen movie, although The Great St. Louis Bank Robbery is also excellent:cool:

[Skuzzy]

U.S. crude is high sulphur content.  In order to make a switch to low-sulphur fuel, the U.S. would have two choices.  

1)  Import 100% of its fuel.  Want to see what happens to diesel prices around the world if the U.S. has to import 100% of its fuel?

2)  Go through a very expensive scrubbing of the crude to reduce the sulphur content.  End result, would be diesel costing double the price of current gas prices (if not higher).


A diesel winning a race is not a big deal.  With the metallurgy available today it should be able to win.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Thud
As to the overall engine characteristics, even the most advanced high-end diesels these days are easily recognisable in both sound and power delivery.

Errr bollocks. Maybe poorly maintained diesels. I switched to a diesel 4wd last year for fuel efficiency. Only negative difference I noticed was a little less in acceleration, top end speed was better. The positives were the engine doesn't bat an eye with a heavier load and fuel economy.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
A diesel winning a race is not a big deal.  With the metallurgy available today it should be able to win.

Stubby Stubblefield drove a Dusenberg powered by a Cummins Diesel to a 12th place finish in the 1934 Indy 500.

The 1952 Indy 500 pole winner:



A turbo charger compressor failure caused an early retirement.

Then in 1967 burning a low sulfur content and low viscosity diesel fuel (known at jet fuel) Parnelli Jones won the pole, dominated the race, broke a gearbox with only a couple of laps to go and almost coasted across the finish line in first.  Ended up 6th...  

[Thud]

Originally posted by Vulcan
Errr bollocks. Maybe poorly maintained diesels. I switched to a diesel 4wd last year for fuel efficiency. Only negative difference I noticed was a little less in acceleration, top end speed was better. The positives were the engine doesn't bat an eye with a heavier load and fuel economy.

Sure, I bet when you've got money riding on it you will recognize the diesel hands down by its sound. Don't forget that in high end diesel cars it is more because of the superb sound insulation that you don't hear the diesel than because of the lack of diesel noises. Try it outside or even with the hood open, you'll know.
And when you read my post accurately I said that diesels have come a long way but still are just a notch away from petrol engines. And that is common knowledge among car professionals. As for the characteristics, power delivery in a typical diesel could only be achieved by a large volume, low rpm , turbocharged  petrol engine, not an engine one would ever conceive. This similarity is because of the top performance in the low rpm regions still typical for diesels.

[mora]

Originally posted by Thud
That is not true, if you take a performance saloon for example, the weight difference will be close to 100kg's on a typical 1500-ish empty car-weight. The difference in weight distribution is especially notable in the handling characteristics since the heavy diesel engine will put severe pressure on the front wheels.
As to the overall engine characteristics, even the most advanced high-end diesels these days are easily recognisable in both sound and power delivery.

Maybe in a few years they will also eliminate the last differences compared to petrol since they're making these leaps now. But presently, petrol engines are just a bit more smooth.

You have to compare models with similar performance. 1.5 liter TD should be compared to a petrol of at least the same displacement.

For example the Renault Megane dCi(1461 cc TD) and 1.6 VVT(1598 cc petrol) have a whopping 20 kg weight difference. Both cars have practically the same performance(0-100 km/h: 11.1 s vs. 10.5 s, top speed: 185 km/h vs. 192 km/h, CO2: 120 g/km vs. 164 g/km)

[Thud]

Originally posted by mora
You have to compare models with similar performance. 1.5 liter TD should be compared to a petrol of at least the same displacement.

For example the Renault Megane dCi(1461 cc TD) and 1.6 VVT(1598 cc petrol) have a whopping 20 kg weight difference. Both cars have practically the same performance(0-100 km/h: 11.1 s vs. 10.5 s, top speed: 185 km/h vs. 192 km/h, CO2: 120 g/km vs. 164 g/km)

e.g. 530d touring exe vs. 530i

Similar performance - 90kg difference

BTW in the segment of the megane the performance difference above is considerable.

[mora]

The point is getting from A to B, not beating a lap record at Monza. Of those two I'd definately take the diesel, even if I wouldn't be paying for the fuel. I'm pretty sure it would tow my caravan much better too.

[Thud]

Originally posted by mora
The point is getting from A to B, not beating a lap record at Monza. Of those two I'd definately take the diesel, even if I wouldn't be paying for the fuel. I'm pretty sure it would tow my caravan much better too.

Of course these things are measured according to ones own reference, if judged purely on transporation merits latest generations diesels may come out on top when comparing them to similar petrol engines, especially because economics do weigh in heavily in such an A to B picture.
But as we both now for many, many people cars are not simply a means of transportation...

[Debonair]

my '95 ford contour is a source of tremendous pride & chicks dig it.
it is [SIZE=8]NOT[/SIZE] for sale:t