Author Topic: F4U-1D and Energy State (Read 669 times)

Zippatuh · « **on:** July 03, 2001, 01:49:00 PM »

All right, I’m throwing this out here because I haven’t seen any posts on it and I was wondering if is just me.

When I first started “flying”, FAII, I soon learned that it was a good idea to look for some historic accounts of how the aircraft performed and how it should be best used in combat. You see I was trying to turn fight in all the wrong planes. I then stumbled and fell in love with the F4U-4. I argued on several occasions as to its ability, within the game of course, and performance as compared to other “E” fighters. In most occasions it was the 51 pilots. I would usually start it with “Why are you flying that crappy Mustang when you could be in a Corsair”. No offense to the 51 pilots, I like it too.

The reason, for me anyway, was in the vertical attack. The Mustang being more restricted to horizontal movement and the ability of the F4U-4 to retain E on the zoom was amazing. This brings me to my question about the 1D in Aces High.

Unfortunately the only reference I have for the F4U airframe and its flight characteristics are from FAII. I understand that the F4U-4 had about 100 horsepower more and somewhere around 50 Mph additional deck speed. It was also heavier. So...

Does anyone else think it should be retaining more E than it is? Or is it just me?

Since switching to AH it appears that the performance of the 51D is better then that of the F4U-1D, IMO. Does that little bit of horsepower make that much difference between the 1D and the 4?

Zippatuh

Weave · « **Reply #1 on:** July 03, 2001, 02:53:00 PM »

Well, I dunno. Had one jog away from my 51B with WEP on the deck yesterday. thought I could catch him, boy was I wrong.

Wlfgng · « **Reply #2 on:** July 03, 2001, 03:08:00 PM »

i think it depends on what aspect of performance you're referring to.

The 51D has better top speed but less acceleration. At speed (250+) it also turns well.

The corsair should (IMO) dive faster and out accelerate the 51D.

(all this of course is IMO)

TRiMmer · « **Reply #3 on:** July 03, 2001, 04:02:00 PM »

The F4U-1 series had a 3-blade propeller, and the F4u-4 series a 4-blade. Considering that and the more powerful R-2800-18W engine, speed and climb performance of the -4 should be much greater than the -1.

trm

bloom25 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 04, 2001, 12:37:00 AM »

The -4 should perform much better than the -1s we have now.

The f4u we have isn't actually that bad. It has a Ton of ammo, and a very good deck speed. It also turns better than a good amount of the planes at high speeds.

I personally would take the f4u-1d in a co-e fight with a p51d. About all the p51 has is top speed, and at around 13-15k the f4u actually seems to be about the same speed.

juzz · « **Reply #5 on:** July 04, 2001, 01:52:00 AM »

Yup at 15k the F4U-1D and P-51D are equal in speed, if anything the Corsair is a smidge faster.

F4U-4 would be sweeet. At 20-25k it would rule the skies!

lazs1 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 04, 2001, 10:32:00 AM »

The dash 4 should be a monster with allmost 4000 fpm climb and over 460 mph. It should do everything better than a 51 or D9.

The 1d is suppossedly gonna be fixed in AH. F4UDOA proved that it accelerates and climbs too slowly. I believe it turns too poorly.

WWII pilots knew that a 51 was no match for a -1 Hog under 15K... The alt we mostly fly. An AH -1 will not outrun a 51 on the deck.. trust me.

The worst scenario for me is a lag or p51 on my Hog on the deck flat out and he has a Spit or nik with him. I can beat the 51 but then I die to the nik or spit.
lazs

F4UDOA · « **Reply #7 on:** July 04, 2001, 11:31:00 AM »

Heya Zip<S>

First a F4U-4 is a much better Airplane than a F4U-1D. It had 2450HP compared to 2250HP in the -1D plus less drag and a more efficient prop. However your question is what are the differences between the F4U-1D and the P-51D. Some of the questions can be answered between the flight test of the P-51B and F4U-1A and F4U-1(the F4U-1 was modified to represent a F4U-4 proto-type). The results are here.

P51B vrs F4U-1A

However your question was P-51D and F4U-1D. They were also tested against one another as recently as 1989 by a group of military test pilots known as "The Socioty of Experamental Test Pilots". They did an evaluation called "The end of the arguement" meant to resolve the best fighter plane of WW2 including a P-47D-40, F6F-5, P-51D and F4U-1D. The results are published in their 1989 symposium. I will transcribe their conclusions and repost them soon but I am out of time

)

Karnak · « **Reply #8 on:** July 04, 2001, 12:04:00 PM »

Quote

P-47D-40, F6F-5, P-51D and F4U-1D.

You mean "Best American fighter of WWII", right?

Either that or they had already dismissed all German, Japanese, British, Russian and Italian aircraft for some reason.

I know that there are some flyable mid / late war types for at least the British and maybe the Russians.

Zippatuh · « **Reply #9 on:** July 04, 2001, 07:25:00 PM »

That’s a big yes Karnak. I seem to remember reading something about this debate and it was directed at US aircraft. Did I mention how much LA7’s and Yak’s scare the crap out of me?

My assumption is that should the F4U-1D and the P51D be in the same E state and speed, the F4 would out climb the P51. In an especially steep climb I would think the 51 would start to fall away, not gain. In the few occasions I have been in this situation the 51 always seems to gain on me. I’m not ruling out the possibility that I misjudge their E state but it has happened enough that I question it.

Thanks squadie <S>

The link you provided was very informational. So from what lazs1 stated, there are known problems with F4U-1D by HTC?

Zippatuh

lazs1 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 05, 2001, 08:26:00 AM »

Oh yeah... Looking forward to you transcribing that beat F4UDOA! Have talked to some pilots from WWII and airshows and they all thought the 51 was no match for the -1 at under 15K. Be interesting to see what the tests show.
lazs