Author Topic: Tell the truth...  (Read 2137 times)

Offline Gunthr

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Tell the truth...
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2000, 08:36:00 AM »
 
Quote
How about this:
By voting you implicitly declare the political system (in the amurrican case, the income tax- and special interest-perpetuated two-party system) to be legitimate. By withholding your vote, you deny to both parties (which are hardly different anyway) your consent.
As it stands, you're basically voting for whether you want it with vaseline or KY.

and


 
Quote
seems like we are either voting for Moe or Larry, I think I'll abstain, like Curly. appears to be the same ole same ole in gridlocked US politics.

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<S> It is faulty reasoning if you believe that you are sending a message to someone by abstaining from the vote. It's like the many people who commit suicide believing that the act will teach thier "survivors" a lesson.

In actuality, the "survivors" of your nihilistic act couldn't care less!  

This is a numbers game!

Hold your nose if you have to, but pick the least offensive candidate and VOTE!
---------------------------------------------
BUSH 2000
Gunthr

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Offline Hajo

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« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2000, 09:21:00 AM »
 
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Originally posted by Gunthr:

Gunthr the recent politics practiced in the US call for a shift in paradigms.  There has really nothing been accomplished but for a few things.  And these appear to have little if any effect.  Our Congress has been gridlocked, embroiled in finger pointing, and involved in nothing but partisan politics.  In recent years do you remember anything at all that benefitted the people of the US coming from either house?  I don't!  The candidate that I had a great deal respect for alas did not have the financial resourses or the political machine to continue his quest for the presidency.  I thought Sen. McCain a refreshing change,  LOL even members of his party, my party by the way, such as Trent Lott disliked him because of his stance on campaign financing etc.  Gee, what a novel idea, don't let someone be bought by special interests..Gee what a refreshing idea! actually having your elected representatives actually represent you instead of major corporations and Lobbyist groups.  Seems that didn't fly with the established politicians, they couldn't have all that extra money from PACs, and no more trips to the Bahamas for fact finding tours <G>  The reason I'm not voting is not to prove a point, it's just not worth the fuel to drive there and vote for either of these two dimwits.
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Offline Eagler

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« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2000, 09:33:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Hajo:
Gunthr the recent politics practiced in the US call for a shift in paradigms.  There has really nothing been accomplished but for a few things.  And these appear to have little if any effect.  Our Congress has been gridlocked, embroiled in finger pointing, and involved in nothing but partisan politics.  In recent years do you remember anything at all that benefitted the people of the US coming from either house?  I don't!  The candidate that I had a great deal respect for alas did not have the financial resourses or the political machine to continue his quest for the presidency.  I thought Sen. McCain a refreshing change,  LOL even members of his party, my party by the way, such as Trent Lott disliked him because of his stance on campaign financing etc.  Gee, what a novel idea, don't let someone be bought by special interests..Gee what a refreshing idea! actually having your elected representatives actually represent you instead of major corporations and Lobbyist groups.  Seems that didn't fly with the established politicians, they couldn't have all that extra money from PACs, and no more trips to the Bahamas for fact finding tours <G>  The reason I'm not voting is not to prove a point, it's just not worth the fuel to drive there and vote for either of these two dimwits.

That's exactly what they want you to do!
Take the populous out of the equation and what are you left with .. the "electoral college". You not voting does nothing, sends no message other than the fact you don't give a crap about your government and/or country. I used to think that way too, when I was 20.

Eagler


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Offline Gunthr

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« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2000, 10:05:00 AM »
Hajo,
Our forefathers shed blood so that you could live free and vote your choice! It is almost a duty! Democracy depends on it.

To justify not voting, you stated:

"In recent years do you remember anything at all that benefitted the people of the US coming from either house?"

Haven't you been listening?  The less that comes out of either the US Congress or US Senate, THE BETTER! We don't need more legislation. (Very, very little, at most.)

Join your fellow patriots in supporting the United States of America and vote for the best candidate.  

<S>
Gunthr


"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2000, 12:16:00 PM »
If you do not vote, you get the government you deserve. If you do not vote you have absolutely NO RIGHT to complain about the results of the election.

Not voting sends absolutely no message at all. It is the same result as the occupant of a cemetery not voting, and about as intelligent. (This has nothing to do with the votes in Chicago's cemetery districts    )

If you do not vote don't try to take some "moral high ground" about it. You have just displayed apathy and there is no particular high morality about that. If you don't like things, vote and try to change them. If that isn't enough, run for office yourself and make the changes. If you do nothing, you have nothing to complain about.

Dowding, SF author or subject aside. Did you not understand the sentiment of the quote? What part of it was not germain to the topic?


<rant off>

Mav
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2000, 04:52:00 PM »
Why do we have to bring Germans into it Maverick?  

It was a decent quote, but I have read several books of his and can't see why anything he says should be given any more credence than the man in the street. He's pretty average. The only reason 'Stranger in a Strange Land' gets any more recognition than any other of his works is the fact it was banned when it was first published.

Gonna stop now, starting to sound even more pretentious...  

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 10-31-2000).]
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2000, 06:13:00 PM »
Dowding,

It would be a full time occupational effort for you to sound more pretentious!  

Mav
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2000, 06:58:00 PM »
Hey! If I don't don't fulfill the Yank stereotypical view of a Brit, who the hell will!!?

 
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Hajo

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« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2000, 10:34:00 PM »
Geez.....sounds like a lot of talking heads stating "if you do not vote etc. etc. etc.  Sounds like you've all bought into the system hook, line , and sinker.  Do you have a mind of your own??? Or are you listening to the politicians telling you to exercise your right to vote?  Yup, my forefathers died so I could have these freedoms, but reading some of the posts in here sounds to me that the majority are satisfied with the way things now are.  If this is as good as it gets, count me out.  Where is the great difference between either of the two candidates?  I don't see much of a difference between the two!  One is Democrat, one is Republican.  I've been voting since 18 year olds were first allowed to cast their ballot<G> showing my age here LOL.  There used to be choices in candidates because of the differences between the two!  Where are there any major differences?  They both have similar political viewpoints!  One's a confessed liar, the other running on the shirt tails of his father?  Great choices eh?  And since there is no great disparity between the two, the only difference between them is which party they are representing.  Since neither of them really impresses me, and whoever or whomever is elected is really not going to do anything of difference then the other, what is the big deal over not casting a ballot when it will make no difference anyway?  someday, during the state primaries, when the nation gets fed up with the gridlock, finger pointing, highly partisan politics, and corruption in government,the people of this country will show their displeasure with the status quo, and elect officials to run for the house,senate, or presidency of different parties, or at least the idea that the candidates have better ideas and programs.  Until that time,we are stuck with the status quo, you like NAFTA?  You've got it, the domestic steel industry as an example is suffering greatly because of illegaly dumped steel.  That's only one example.  The technology industries are just starting to feel the pinch also, there are more industries just starting to feel the effect of a "World Economy."  Most of us make a good wage, let's hope that continues,because if I were an industrialist, and I could get a product made out of country for 50% less and got tax breaks from that country so I could build facilities there to manufacture with tax breaks and cheap labor, it only makes sense to do so.  We need change from our president in many areas, with the two we have running now there is only the status quo!  If you like it the way it is, it really doesn't
matter for which of these two candidates you cast your ballot. At least for this Presidential election, I have more important things to do then give my endorsement to the way things are.

Eagler...to respond to your point about the electoral college, as I recall, at least one
president, maybe more has won the Presidency by wining the electoral college, but did not win the majority of the popular vote.  So much for getting elected by the majority eh?

[This message has been edited by Hajo (edited 10-31-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Hajo (edited 10-31-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Hajo (edited 10-31-2000).]
- The Flying Circus -

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2000, 10:37:00 PM »
If you don't vote, don't complain about the outcome.
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2000, 06:38:00 AM »
That's exactly it, Maverick.

Besides, when I feel I can't be arsed to go to the polling station, I usually think about the millions of people being tortured, raped and killed because all they want to do is decide who leads them.

Hopefully we will never know how fortunate we are, right now.

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 11-01-2000).]
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Gunthr

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« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2000, 08:43:00 AM »
Mav, Dowding, I couldn't agree more.

 Hajo, if you could see beyond your general defeatism and overall malaise, there are sharp differences between the two candidates, and some of them could effect you personally.

But don't bother. Just lay there. Rest. The world will walk around you, and events will leave you far behind.

"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline leonid

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« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2000, 09:12:00 AM »
LOL!  You people sure get worked up about things that won't do much for you personally.  As for Al Gore & George W Bush, well, they're both inverterate liars.  Professional liars.  Lying honed to a fine art.  In other words, car salesmen, er, politicians.  The only reason Bush is doing so well is that he's been steadily calling Gore a "LIAR!" louder throughout this entire farcical campaign.  And the fact that Gore tried defending himself was his undoing.  He should have just shouted "LIAR!" back, and louder too.  What a joke this whole election is, and what an absolute farce that people like these have duped us into believing they are actually working in our best interests!

God, where is Uncle Joe when you need him!

"Mr. Stalin, I believe that the House will not pass your taxation program."

"Hm.  They will not?  Oh, but I think they will.  Tell Secretary of State Beria to pay the Speaker a special visit tonight - privately.  And send memos to every congressmen, inquiring on their health."

"At once, Mr. President!"


 

ingame: Raz

Offline leonid

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« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2000, 11:32:00 AM »
Oh, and as for freedom, it's our Federal Government that keeps us free, not a bunch of clowns we happen to call 'politicians'.  All politicians do is balance each other out, so that we effectively get zippo while making sure that the right people's pockets get a hearty padding of our taxes.  Namely, multinational corporations.  And they dupe us by proclaiming 'free enterprise' when all they're doing is ensuring that we are buried in mind-numbing adult toys, like entertainment systems, and appliances, and gimmicks of all types.  And then, we, not knowing any better equate selection of 'toys' to a high standard of living, and 'freedom of choice'!  

HAH!
ingame: Raz

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2000, 11:44:00 AM »
Leonid - I agree to a certain extent. But I don't know an alternative to the political systems we have.

It's a shame communism didn't work.

The one ray of light in recent years in British politics was the humongous defeat the Conservatives suffered in 1997. I was a first year at uni. and I remember us setting around a TV at three o'clock in the morning as the prominant Tory politicians lost their seats. No-one could beleive it - after 18 years we'd finally gotten rid of the stink of the Thatcher years; politicians who I despised, who had earlier looked at the public with disdain had gone! Real people power and a tonic to anyone who thought the British electorate system didn't work.

I'm not sure the Labour government is that much better than the Tories in some respects, but I believe Britain has been improved by the new government.

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 11-01-2000).]
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.