Our kids killed by their Iraq 'Partners'.

[Maverick]

All war is a political act. What remains is to see if the usual folks on the bbs here decide to use this situation to further their egos and political agendas. So far it's running true to form.

[Warspawn]

Passing off responsibility for atrocities committed in wartime by the enemy...blaming them on the 'politics' of our Commander-in-Chief is pretty ignorant, I'd have to say.

I wonder if RPM would blame FDR for the slaughter of POW's by their Japanese captors.  "If he would only have given them the raw materials they needed, our innocent lads would have never had that happen to them!"

/sigh

Who was it that said, "Evil will have triumphed when it occurs and good men stand idly by and do nothing"  ?  Something along those lines.

I think it was best said in a movie that's become a favorite of mine over the years, I'm sure someone will know it:

"We do not ask for your poor or your hungry. We do not want your tired and sick. It is your corrupt we claim. It is your evil that will be sought by us. With every breath we shall hunt them down. Each day we will spill their blood til it rains down from the skies. Do not kill do not rape do not steal. These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace. These are not polite suggestions these are codes of behavior and those of you that ignore them will pay the dearest cost. There are varying degrees of evil we urge you lesser forms of filth not to push the bounds and cross over into true corruption, into our domain. But if you do one day you will look behind you and see we three, and on that day you will reap it- and we will send you to whatever god you wish. And shepards we shall be, for thee my lord for thee, power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command, and we shall flow a river forth to thee, in teeming with souls shall it ever be, in nomine patri, et fili, et spiritus sancti."

[AquaShrimp]

I heard on the news that the two U.S. soldiers were captured, taken to the guy who replaced Zarqawi, and were beheaded by him.

[lukster]

We killed an awful lot of Iraqi's in '91 and '03. That some would harbor a vicious hatred for us is not hard to understand.

[uvwpvW]

Originally posted by Shuckins
Two of our young men have been killed in violation of all of the rules of civilization and humanity.

Give the politics a rest.

Yes, don’t you just want to run over to Iraq and help these people? Just be careful when hugging any kids, they may be booby-trapped.

They didn’t have the balls to fight Hussein, but they sure are fighting us aren’t they? Go Shuckins! Run and help.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Okay. I thought your post referred to the two who were recovered today. Is THIS  what you refer to?

They've known for some time that the insurgency has tried, and been successful in some rare instances, to infiltrate the new Iraqi army and police forces.

Yes, it is not unlike the VC infiltrating units of the South Vietnamese army and attacking those units and U.S. units operating with them, or leading them into ambushes.

Could very well be.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

I'm just trying to make sure we're looking at and talking about the same thing. The guys found today are not the same guys my link refers to, and I've not heard of them (the guys found today) being ambushed by "insurgents" posing as Iraqi soldiers or police.

[AWMac]

War is Hell.... film at 11:00....

Mac

[rpm]

My point? We lost focus. We broke it and now we gotta fix it. All the politics that drew us into this war was just that. Today we face 2 identical, if not greater threats and we are not pushing for invasion. Cooler heads could have prevailed with equal results and a lower KIA count.

[bj229r]

They chose to draw a line in the sand in Iraq--we either meet them and win, or go home and admit defeat-- call it want you want...but THAT is how our enemy will see it. Another year or so the Iraqi military will stand on its own, and we can start  bringing guys home--THAT is what Bush has been saying for quite some time

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by rpm
My point? We lost focus. We broke it and now we gotta fix it. All the politics that drew us into this war was just that. Today we face 2 identical, if not greater threats and we are not pushing for invasion. Cooler heads could have prevailed with equal results and a lower KIA count.

It's not your point, it's your opinion. When you can prove it is fact, let us all know. Then it will qualify as a "point". Until then, call it what it is, an opinion.

[Yeager]

on a related note: Arab nations with nuclear weapons makes me very uncomfortable.

What would the consequences be on the environment if we detonated 30-40 medium sized nuclear warheads....in a clean up the neighborhood type mission?

Just curious....

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Seems those two troops reported 'kidnapped' were murdered by the 2 Iraqi troops on patrol with them.

Chilling.

I have so many issues with this incident.. from the moment it was reported.. first portrayed as 'kidnapped'?  WTF? It was my impression that a soldier captured by enemy forces (as they were assumed to be) would be described as 'MIA. PRESUMED CAPTURED'.

Kidnapped?

Worst fears relized.. the kids were tortured horribly; then dumped.

Now.. it was the Iraq Soldiers on training patrol with these kids?

Gawdamn.

Cripes, this sucks on so many levels...

Looks like the Psy-ops of terrorists has worked on Hang and co. You *do* know the enemy commonly dresses in Iraqi uniforms and infiltrates, don't you Hang?  Or are you one of those that just love bad news from the war in the middle east to justify your dislike for the commander in Chief who was brilliant enough to bring the fight to them, rather than have it here?

More stories of  presumed "Iraqi Soldiers":

Some accounts by police said the rebels were dressed in Iraqi military uniforms.


Insurgents dressed as Iraq police shot and killed six teachers Monday, while violence claimed at least 10 other lives, including three US soldiers

You just can't face facts that its predomeniently INSURGENTS that are killing our boys, NOT Iraqi forces, can you?  The press tells you its the Iraqi's turning on us, we should get out...the press probably would have been happy if we all hid in our closets after 9/11, hope the bad guys go away.  Sorry, won't happen.  Those scum terrorists only understand one thing. Violence on violence. It pisses them off that we're "over there". Thats our mission. Bring them out, fight them on their turf, not US soil. God Bless the men in uniform that understand this and go there to fight them.

On April 9, 2004, armed men attacked a seventeen-truck U.S. fuel convoy near Abu Ghraib and captured two U.S. servicemen, Sgt. Elmer C. Krause and Pfc. Keith M. Maupin from the Army Reserve’s 724th Transportation Company, and seven contractors.339 Bodies of four of the contractors were later found, as was the body of Sgt. Krause. One of the contractors, Thomas Hamill, escaped after one month, but the two other contractors and Pfc. Maupin remained missing. On April 16, al-Jazeera broadcast a video from an unnamed armed group that showed Pfc. Maupin sitting on the ground, apparently in good health, surrounded by six masked men. Ten weeks later, on June 28, al-Jazeera aired another video that showed Pfc. Maupin, along with a statement that he had been executed. Al-Jazeera did not broadcast the execution but said the video showed a gunman shooting Pfc. Maupin in the head from behind. U.S. officials said they could not confirm the execution due to the poor quality of the video.340 Pfc. Maupin remains the only missing U.S. soldier in Iraq.


On October 26, 2004, Ansar al-Sunna announced the abduction of eleven Iraqi soldiers south of Baghdad. Two days later, a statement posted on the Internet along with photographs said the group had executed the eleven men. “The ruling of God has been implemented against them by slaughtering one and killing the others by firing squad,” the statement reportedly said.341


On November 20, 2004, U.S. and Iraqi soldiers found the bodies of nine Iraqi soldiers in an industrial area of central Mosul. Each of the victims reportedly had a bullet wound in the head, and four of them were badly burned in manner suggesting they might have first been tortured.342 Eight days later, al-Qaeda in Iraq claimed responsibility for killing seventeen members of Iraq’s security forces in Mosul, although it is not clear if some of these victims were the men found on November 20. In a statement posted on a website, the group reportedly said it had killed seven “apostates” from the armed forces, as well as a Kurdish militiaman. Three members of the Iraqi government’s Emergency Response Units were executed after being “investigated,” the group said.343


On January 1, 2005, a group claiming to be al-Qaeda Group of Jihad in Mesopotamia in al-Ramadi posted a video on the Internet that reportedly showed the execution of five Iraqi soldiers. Entitled “Confessions and Implementations of God’s Judgment on the American Dogs,” the video showed five men in civilian clothes on a deserted city street with their hands tied behind their backs. One of the five men had identified himself as Bashar Latif Jassim, who “confessed” that his assignment was to “prevent the terrorists from entering Iraq.”344 Men with handguns shot them repeatedly in their backs.345


On January 23, 2005, Ansar al-Sunna released a video that showed the execution of an Iraqi soldier. Posted on the Internet, it reportedly showed a man in a chair with an identity card that read, “Defense Ministry, `Abd al-Jabbar `Ali `Abdullah, colonel.” An insurgent in a hood then shot the man. A statement with the video said, “the colonel was taken captive in Mosul, where he had been sent to help U.S. forces seeking to recapture the town from the mujahadin. He was executed by firing squad after confessing to his crimes.”346


On February 2, 2005, insurgents stopped a minibus carrying Iraqi soldiers south of Kirkuk. They reportedly ordered the fourteen soldiers off the bus and then executed twelve of them. The insurgents allowed two wounded men to live apparently as a warning to others. According to the Iraqi military commander in Kirkuk, Maj. Gen. Anwar Muhammad, “they deliberately wounded them and told them: go and tell your village what we did.”347 The assailants identified themselves as members of al-Takfir wal-Hijra (Atonement and Pilgrimage).348


On April 20, 2005, officials discovered the corpses of nineteen Iraqi soldiers in a stadium in the largely Sunni Arab city of Haditha, about 130 miles northwest of Baghdad. Unknown insurgents apparently kidnapped the soldiers while they were on leave from their posts. According to a local health official, “the armed group threatened the people and the medical staff of the hospital not to evacuate the bodies from the stadium,” so Iraqis would be warned not to join the Iraqi army or police.349 Two witnesses said they ran to the stadium after hearing shots and saw the nineteen bodies slumped up against a wall stained with blood.
http://hrw.org/reports/2005/iraq1005/13.htm

[rpm]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
It's not your point, it's your opinion. When you can prove it is fact, let us all know. Then it will qualify as a "point". Until then, call it what it is, an opinion.

My point, my opinion, same thing. Please keep up with the entendre.

[Yeager]

Military investigators have concluded two California National Guardsmen were shot and killed in June 2004 by Iraqi soldiers on patrol with them, Army officials said Tuesday. The two U.S. soldiers, Spc. Patrick R. McCaffrey Sr., 34, and 1st Lt. Andre D. Tyson, 33, were originally reported to have died in an ambush.