Author Topic: Automotive trivia (have a go at these!) (Read 884 times)

Jimdandy · « **Reply #15 on:** February 15, 2001, 01:31:00 PM »

I can't remeber the exact tital and publisher but I have a book stored some place with a picture of it. I think it was a Peterson's publication and the tital was Pontiac's. It should still be out there. Look at Hastings and Barnes & Nobel in there automotive section. I bet it's still in print. It's a paper back with a glossy photo of I think a TA wagon on the front. It was a concept car in the mid 70's. I might be getting it mixed up with another Pontiac book I have. At any rate it is a paper back with a glossy cover. It was one of those books you always see about a brand or specific car. I looked real quik on the web and I only see Royal Bobcat GTO stuff. But like Yenko they did several different Pontiac models. Most of the time all you hear about is the Yenko Camaro's.

[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 02-15-2001).]

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #16 on:** February 15, 2001, 01:33:00 PM »

Sky_Bax.. I'm going to have to disagree with you on #1. As early as 1935 (as far back as I could find), 2 dr sedans were used by state highway patrols exclusively traffic control. These were hot-rods built for persuit.

I think someone may lay claim to the "official" persuit title.. but it is a paper claim at best.

AKDejaVu

Jimdandy · « **Reply #17 on:** February 15, 2001, 01:47:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Sky_Bax.. I'm going to have to disagree with you on #1. As early as 1935 (as far back as I could find), 2 dr sedans were used by state highway patrols exclusively traffic control. These were hot-rods built for persuit.

I think someone may lay claim to the "official" persuit title.. but it is a paper claim at best.

AKDejaVu

I would have to agree. I'm not sure if they were "Official" but there have been hot police cars since the 20's or 30's. They really got big in the moonshine states. There were some really wicked one's built in the 60's. A guy I know had an old Dodge police car that actually had ladder bars and a factory hi-po 440 that was VERY VERY fast. He never took it to the trak but there wasn't anything he raced in the 80's that could stay with it on the highway. That included Vette's, Porches, you name it. Some were a little quiker off the line. It was a big 4 door tank. Like I say I'm not sure what you mean by "official" but this was a factory engine. Not sure about the suspention. It was a very strange carberator. It was some wierd 2bbl 4bbl combination or something but all one piece. Wild car. BTW the car ended it's life along with the life of the driver when it hit a bridge abutment at an estimated 160mph. He sold it to a kid when he got married.

sky_bax · « **Reply #18 on:** February 15, 2001, 05:36:00 PM »

Valid point guys.

And I`m sure there were all kinds of "modified" cop cars in the past 75 years or so.

But basicly my definition of "official" was that of a "pursuit" car specialy designed by a car maker and delivered that way to the police department of interest. Sedans excluded.

These Javelins, Mustangs and others, have special options and codes from the factory that seperate them from the other cars.

I don`t think there were any "factory built Police Interceptors" before that 1971 AMX.

Could be wrong. Interesting though.

[This message has been edited by sky_bax (edited 02-15-2001).]

sky_bax · « **Reply #19 on:** February 15, 2001, 05:51:00 PM »

Here`s an example,

Take a 1945 Ford 2 door coupe.

A police department buys several of them, orders them the way they want, puts their makings, lights, radios, and uses them for pursuit purposes.

In that day and age, they maybe even trick it out a bit after recieving it if someone at the station is a gearhead he he.

But, it still is identical to every other 1945 Ford coupe that comes off the line with the same options except for a higher # at the end of the VIN.

So it`s not the same as a "factory police interceptor" built solely and coded officially for that purpose.

See what I`m saying?

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #20 on:** February 15, 2001, 06:46:00 PM »

You asked "what was the first official pursuit car"... not "what was the first pursuit vehicle specifically developed for that purpose and not sold to the public".

The fastest cars available were used as early as 1935 (that I could find). That changed over time as more options (and spendier ones) were available. Budget became more of a concern and sedans were the cheapest. It may have been an issue during the 70's, but back in 35 it was not.

The cops weren't being outran, simply because they already had the fastest out there.

AKDejaVu

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #21 on:** February 15, 2001, 06:54:00 PM »

Also sky_bax, I see that the AMX was available with a 401 in production vehicles too? Basically, the only real difference was introducing a production hot-rod as a fleet vehicle.

The only real distinction is that fleet vehicles exist now, whereas the title was not around in earlier days.

AKDejaVu

sky_bax · « **Reply #22 on:** February 15, 2001, 10:45:00 PM »

You asked "what was the first official pursuit car"

That is exactly it.

Ok..........

I explained best I could above but I`ll give it one more try.

Take a 1987 Buick T-Type Regal. (basicly same as a Grand National)

The Pittsburgh Police recieved 10 of them when them came out. They used them as pursuit cars for 7 years. They were 2 doors, fast, and their sole purpose was to run down speeders. When sold 7 years later, if you bought one at the auction, that car is no different than the one in my garage. The police using it for 7 years means nothing.

Now, that fits exactly into what your saying about a 30s or 40s car. I agree. A hot-rod pursuit car the police used for that purpose.

But, those turbo regals are no different than any other turbo regals sold new or used.

"official" pursuit cars, or sometimes called police interceptors are ones that are built from the factory. Reguardless of options, or what was done to them, they were "labeled" from the factory when new and remain that status for life reguardless who owns them.

They have special plates and codes from the factory seperating them from their sister models.

I can take a 1992 Mustang 2 door coupe notchback and buy every single thing that went on a Special Service Package Mustang, add all the police trimmings, and it will be an identical clone. But its not a real police interceptor.

You can take a 69 GTO and make a Judge out of it, but its not a real Judge.

What I`m trying to say is, the eariler model 2 door pursuit cars you speak of police used, reguardless of what options they were ordered with, and what was done to them for law enforcment purposes, were not "official" pursuit cars built from the factory and "labeled" that status from day one.

An "official" pursuit car is brand at birth same as a "official" GTO Judge.

Being a hobby of mine, I have never come across any information indicating that their was an "official" police pursuit car built from the factory before that 1971 AMX.

If you find and info indicating otherwise, please post it. Always looking to learn more about them.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #23 on:** February 16, 2001, 12:17:00 AM »

Quote

were not "official" pursuit cars built from the factory and "labeled" that status from day one.

You see sky_bax, what you are doing is re-wording the question. You now are specifying what makes it official or not official.

Some might think that a car that is bought by the state for use by the police would be "official". Others would think that the car company has to label them to become "official".

Like I said.. the claim is on paper at best.

AKDejaVu

sky_bax · « **Reply #24 on:** February 16, 2001, 02:34:00 AM »

Well, don`t know what else to tell ya.

I`m not making the decision, it either is or isn`t official. That`s not for me or you to decide.

Some might think that a car that is bought by the state for use by the police would be "official".

Some might think. But there are official pursuit cars, and then there are just cars that police buy and use.

(see above about Pittsburgh T-Types)

If your GS, Yenko Camero, SS, Judge, or Police Interceptor Mustang has all the codes, paper work, and body tags that was an actual factory produced car then its as official as it gets.

Others would think that the car company has to label them to become "official".

He he

If I buy a ZR1 Vette, LS6 Chevelle SS, or Police Interceptor Mustang it damn well better be labeled making it official or I`m taking it back!

Look at it any way you like AKDejaVu, it either has the codes or it don`t.

Its the real deal, or its just another model.

Its an official pursuit vehicle, or its just another car.

Official means official.

Nice chatting with ya.

Congrats on getting 2 out of 5 answers.

PS: Jimdandy, be sure and let me know if you run across anything on a Bobcat GP.

NUTTZ · « **Reply #25 on:** February 17, 2001, 05:09:00 PM »

define MASS PRODUCED wasn't there an exact figure for what would be defined as "mass produced" I can'T remember the axact number.

The turbo charged national wasn't mass produced. avalable to the public, YES,,, mass produced I would have to disagree.

NUTTZ

sky_bax · « **Reply #26 on:** February 17, 2001, 05:16:00 PM »

"The turbo charged national wasn't mass produced. avalable to the public, YES,,, mass produced I would have to disagree."

That would be incorrect,

20,194 Grand Nationals produced in 1987.

=========================================

You might be thinking of the special Grand National package X.

Or known as the GNX. Only 547 made.
http://www.tctc.com/~avblefty/87gnx.htm

(a spin off of the Buick GS to GSX of the early 1970s)

Equipped with a few more modifications, different wheels (GNX wheels are on that GN picture above), fender louvers, series # on dash plate, Stewart Warner gauges and so on. Random GNs were pulled off the assembly line and transformed into a GNX at a different location.

Each GNX buyer recieved an hardbound GNX book and certificate.

[This message has been edited by sky_bax (edited 02-17-2001).]