2nd richest man in the world gives bulk of wealth to...

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Shifty
It doesn't matter what you want. It's not your money. Besides what makes you think this administration or any other would spend it as you see fit?

I'm pointing out that dumping wealth into philanthropys is just cutting the taxman out. With the usual spin, the public eats the practice up as a good thing; and the generosity of the billionaire is touted, kudos all around for him.

In fact it's just putting the wealth outside of the corrupt governments reach.. not  a bad thing right? But.. just who's monkey is the government anyway? It sure ain't ours. Like I said.. big business is just taking care of it's corporate self; they propagandize it and we eat it up as 'generosity'. I get a chuckle out of it because it's just a neat corporate way for the captains of industry to screw their own monkey. Shifty, yer absolutely right.. it's thier money, and thier monkey.

Not so long ago the subject came around to 'how much will it take to cure world hunger'? Last estimate I heard was 75 billion.   Chump change for these guys.

Odd... seems to be a lotta people still starving in this world. Despite the 'philanthropies'.

But hey, Shifty; you wanna pin a medal on Gates or his new pal Buffet, you go right ahead.

Knock yerself out. Be careful though.. they might try to bend yah over like they do with the monkey. LOL!

[Shifty]

Originally posted by Hangtime
But hey, Shifty; you wanna pin a medal on Gates or his new pal Buffet, you go right ahead.

Knock yerself out. Be careful though.. they might try to bend yah over like they do with the monkey. LOL!

I never said anything about pinning a medal on anybody. It's Buffets money, he can do with it what he wants is my point. If he can donate it without it getting in the hands of the IRS more power to him. If you trust the IRS with it, dont worry about getting bent over like the monkey.... You are the monkey.

[Hangtime]

naw shifty.. we're just the little monkies. Surely you know how it works.. the biggest monkey smacks around the smaller monkey next to him.. after getting his beating, he takes it out on the next smallest monkey.

the corporations monkey will be by to pay us a visit any time now.

[Ripsnort]

Something tells me Hangtime has difficulty with people who become very successful in this nation that allows even the poorest to become the wealthiest.  I bet Hang hates the color green...

[Hangtime]

Yep.. yer still spouting the same old crap Rip. Seems the PC crowd just can't wrap their minds around the concept of truth.

Yes, you can love America and hate the corporate control of it. Yes, you can support the troops and still criticize the lack of planning and cause of the war. Yes, you can applaud the efforts of the wealthy to share the wealth and point out the self-serving motivation for it. Yes, you can be a good republican and still hate and speak out against the game plan your party adopted.

Of course, in your playbook, the truth is always inconvienent, unpatriotic or marginalized because it fogs the mirror.

You may return to your golf-clap for the generous philanthropists. Say.. how many people died today from corporate greed?

Same or more than yesterday?

[Shifty]

Okay Hang.

Honest question. One thing I can never figure out about the people that hate corporations. Do you know of a better system? Do you realize that almost everything you own, enjoy, or desire is made by a corporation. The car you drive, the materials used to build your home, the clothes you wear, the food you eat, the PC  you use on this board?

Of course if they supply the world with the things the world wants they are going to get rich. But who else is going to do it? Some government? I can see where people are concerned about corporate influnce on government. I still dont want a goverment  that supplys us with our needs , and it becomes the corporation.

[Hangtime]

What happened to the American middle class.. you know, the folks that worked for the corporations.. making those products. Their Pensions. their Health Benefits.

What happened to them? The Corporations moved their jobs where?

Big Oil got how many billions in tax relief? How many billions in subsidies?

While they raked in the biggest profits in corporate history... the government (their pet monkey) slapped a 100% tarrif on imported fuel made from orgainics. (brazil).

Do a bit of checking on your own.. make your own decisions.

remember.. the government is supposed to be OUR Monkey.. supposed to be protecting the PEOPLE, supposed to be representing US..

Who do they protect? Who do they REALLY represent?

[StSanta]

Hang I don't know what the hell has happened to you in the last year or so.

I only know I approve of it. You're now one of the few Americans I know of who are living up to my image of a 'true one'.

Oddly enough, so's Rip, but in a different fashion. Hard one to figure out.

[Dos Equis]

Originally posted by Shifty
Okay Hang.

Honest question. One thing I can never figure out about the people that hate corporations. Do you know of a better system? Do you realize that almost everything you own, enjoy, or desire is made by a corporation. The car you drive, the materials used to build your home, the clothes you wear, the food you eat, the PC  you use on this board?

Of course if they supply the world with the things the world wants they are going to get rich. But who else is going to do it? Some government? I can see where people are concerned about corporate influnce on government. I still dont want a goverment  that supplys us with our needs , and it becomes the corporation.

Corporations didn't even exist in their present state until the 1860s, when the concept of a fictional person was created.

Since that time, it's been a systematic tilt of the balance of power. Once you give a fictional entity inalienable rights, and powers of transferring ownership without some of the liabilities that a real individual would have - that becomes the problem. It's been the erosion of liabilities as well and their abilities to hold states hostage for jobs, demanding at times insane tax breaks. Corporations still need things like power and roads, and an educated workforce to draw from - but they all move money offshore and do everything possible to shirk responsibility from what they draw from the public good.

Warren Buffet has a lot to say on this. He talks about how the Feds have let companies extort people way too far, and how major revisions in tax laws are needed to redress the issues. So do people like Lou Dobbs on CNN. So does the guy who owns CostCo. CostCo's CEO talks about why the Waltons top the Fortune top 20, and how they systematically free ride on the public causing market disruption. CostCo gives health insurance and a decent wage to its employees, and average tenure is 4 years. Average tenure of an employee at Wal-Mart is 4 months.

Capitalism isn't broken, but the current set of laws in support of our version of it are. Lobbys and 529s have corrupted the representational form of government.

[Shifty]

Well maybe I've got it all wrong. I'm in the lower middle class. I got all the problems that go with it. Paycheck to paycheck living, no health insurance , little to no savings.  However I blame my problems on myself , and look to myself for a way to a better life.

I do agree with you 100% on one statement hang. I too belive the government should belong to us, the citizens.

[storch]

my $.02  none of us need more money.  some of us need to be better with the money we have.  if we take the first dime out of every dollar we earn and systematically save it in time you will appreciate the power of compound interest working in your favor.  if a car payment is $500 per month, why not drive an inexpensive but paid for model and make the car payments to yourself?  when new car time rolls around you can pay cash and continue to make car payments.  It's forming a habit and it's never too late to begin it.  it just takes a little discipline, that's all.  any idiot can do I know, I'm living proof.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by storch
my $.02  none of us need more money.  some of us need to be better with the money we have.  if we take the first dime out of every dollar we earn and systematically save it in time you will appreciate the power of compound interest working in your favor.  if a car payment is $500 per month, why not drive an inexpensive but paid for model and make the car payments to yourself?  when new car time rolls around you can pay cash and continue to make car payments.  It's forming a habit and it's never too late to begin it.  it just takes a little discipline, that's all.  any idiot can do I know, I'm living proof.

Exactly! Good post Storch.

Using the car scenario, I drove beaters for 25 years before I paid cash for my first new car. (Saved my money for several years so I could pay cash).  One thing consistent about Americans and these  new generations hitting the work force is that debt is high because they over-spend and want instant gratification. IMO, alot of this is due to commercialism, marketing, media.

My father had a rule he lived by: "If you can't pay for it with cash, then you don't need it."  Well, that's true to a point..regarding toys that we all want to own.  Of course when I was young, I didn't listen to Dad. I got in credit card debt trouble at age 20 and by age 24 I got myself out of debt.  I learned the hard way, but now I live by my father's rule with the exception of our house, which is on a 15 year loan. (During my fathers days, you could pay cash for a house, that's nearly impossible to do these days with the real estate market.)  I've saved my money and invested wisely, and I didn't figure this crap out on my own, I had a good father that managed his finances well, and nurtured me to manage mine as well.  So it all comes back to nurturing!

[Shifty]

Your right Storch.

Just don't let anybody in the AVA know I said it.

[BluKitty]

Einstein once observed on the (Tax) code that it's the only thing he ever encountered that was thoroughly impenetrable to the human mind.

Tax the corporation, not the middleclass citizen.

6 figures would be a good limit too.  You make more than that..... you get taxed, if you make less your taxes are still in the form of sales and registration and tolls and wine and gas.  We really need more basic tax codes.

I think most people are angry that the govement countinaly favors corporations over the intrests of the poor and middle class.  It's not anger at the idea of corporations, just the implementation.

And I don't applaude Gates for doing what any good person would.  Haveing so much money and not helping people would be a 'sin'.  Let's see what he does with his time and money in ten years--I might applaude then, but still not for the way in which he won his fortune.

[Shuckins]

I see that class envy is so heavily entrenched in certain groups in our society that they find it difficult to overcome it long enough to say "Well Done" to a rich philanthropist who just gave away enough money to buy Canada.

Oh...by the way...what, if anything, did Bill Gates do that was illegal?  What?  Insist that people that used his software in their computers pay for the privilege?  Software that his personal company legally developed and patented?

Neither the poor, the middle class, nor the rich have a monopoly on virtue.  I've known poor people who were exceedingly generous and others who wouldn't pull you out of a burning car.  I've known rich who were were unselfishly generous and others who wouldn't spend a dime on anyone, including themselves.

If they've earned their money legally, they can wipe their buts with it for all I care.

Outsourcing of jobs has many causes, not the least of which was the rapid rise in labor costs in the United States.  Another would be need of American corporations to remain competitive on the global market...which would be impossible if they refused to outsource some of their production.

If they don't remain competitive, they go under...pure and simple.

Regards, Shuckins