What campain issues effect you the most

[LJK Raubvogel]

 

Originally posted by F4UDOA:

LJK,

I'm ignorant? Well genius those weren't stereo types I was describing. Those are groups that you want the government to fund. What happened to smaller goverment?
Still think I'm lying?

1. True. The Catholic church has a problem with pedophelia that it has never addressed and continues to hide from. Dodging lawsuites around the country and settling out of court to avoid exposure and responsabilty.

2. True-Their are religious groups in the USA that use venomous snakes as part of their religious practices, followed by violent shaking on the group to release the Deamons.

3.True-The Christian scientist are famous for not using doctors or tradional medicine.
In a case in PA. a child died from lackof care and the parents were prosecuted.

4.True-Dianetics is a religion with many thousands of followers. So are the Moonies, Hare Krishna's and several groups of occult warshippers regardless of your feelings to them.

Are all of these valid religions? Yes. Does one or all of them deserve to be goverment funded? No. The Catholic church is one of the wealthest orginizations in the world and they are tax free. Do people have a right to practice their religion? Yes, do they have the right to deny their chidren a functional education? No. Children have the RIGHT to and education that will allow them to function in this world. And tax payers have the right not to fund every golden sheep of a god that pops up in East bumble USA. Wich is exactly what we will be doing if this is past.

I know that you do not have the forethought to look past breakfast. But just imagine for a second all of the people that will pop up claiming to be school teachers around the country under the gise of religion. I can just see the class of 2018 walking down the isle to graduate from the Hale Bop comet High. Ahh, so proud.

F4UDOA

BTW, Why does God need money???

School vouchers are not about giving government money to religious schools. Get the facts straight. It's about giving me a choice about where to educate my children. Your statements make absolutely no sense. If I don't want my kids to attend public school, why in the hell would I send them to one of the schools you're describing?

I suggest you research school vouchers a little more, and save the sensationalist "evil religion" stereotypes for someone else. Wtf does the Hale-Bop comet have to do with an opportunity to send my kids to a better school?  Are you seriously suggesting that giving parents school vouchers will lead to a nation of abused children in cults?

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 11-06-2000).]

[Lance]

I am curious about something that I haven't been able to find the answer to.  Perhaps someone can edumacate me here.

How does Bush's voucher system work?  Meaning, if I want to send my kid to a private school and I obtain a voucher, where does the Government get the money to pay for that voucher?  Will they take it out of the money that is already being alloted to public schools?  Or does he plan to keep the same ammount of federal money allocated to public schools and then allocating additional money on top of that to pay for these vouchers?

Gordo

[Karnak]

$500.00 of it comes out of the Federal funds to the State, but the State must match that with funds taken from the State's General Education Fund.  So much for the Federal Government not dictating a voucher program to the States as Gov. Bush claimed in the 3rd debate.  He also claimed that the number od children lacking health care was declining in Texas and rising in the USA as a whole.  In reality the opposite is true.  I guess he's a compulsive liar too.

Sisu
-Karnak

[Toad]

Gordo,

As far as I can see, here is the HUGE threat to public education that Bush proposes:
 http://www.georgewbush.com/issues/education.html

"4. Give Parents More Options from Kindergarten to College:

Publish school-by-school report cards on the Internet to arm parents with information.


Double the number of charter schools through a “Charter School Homestead Fund” to provide $3 billion of loan guarantees for start-up and construction costs.


Expand “Education Savings Accounts” by increasing the annual contributions limit from $500 to $5,000, and allowing funds to be withdrawn tax free to pay for expenses from kindergarten through college.


Establish a $1.5 billion “College Challenge” grant to cover one-third of state costs to establish a merit scholarship program for students who take an advanced or recommended curriculum.


Makes it easier for parent to save early  for college by granting complete tax exemption to all qualified pre-paid and tuition savings plans."

Scary stuff, eh?

Sometimes I do wonder if those that oppose such proposals really DO wish American education to be the hallmark of mediocrity. Competition improves the breed. Public schools NEED competition and parents need options.

All this talk of "church and state" is merely a smokescreen. There are nearly as many non-sectarian private schools as there are sectarian schools. Therefore, the argument must be obscured with hobgoblins and strawmen.

What are those that oppose private schools afraid of? That children might actually learn more?

[LJK Raubvogel]

Amen Toad!(no pun intended)

Competition is a good thing. Case in point: The Department of Defense decided it would accept bids on the Public Works job on the base I am stationed at. They stated that if a private company could underbid the Civil Service employees and use less manpower, while retaining quality, than the job was theirs. Guess what? The Civil Service became really efficient really fast. They also miraculously decided they could do the same job with 300 fewer employees.

Competition among schools can lead to nothing but better education opportunities for our children. No one is talking about financing cults, or financing the Catholic church. But, if my local elementary school is garbage, it would be nice to have an alternative. Also, let's be honest. Do you think it only costs $500 to educate 1 child for a year? The public schools will still get the majority of the subsidy for that student regardless.

Well, the point will be moot in about 24 hours  

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[mietla]

     

Originally posted by Toad:

What are those that oppose private schools afraid of? That children might actually learn more?

Good education -> good job -> good income -> self-reliance -> independence from the government -> "leave me alone" attitude -> voting for less government.

The people who depend on the government will vote for more government. And losers will gladly pay for the government goodies with achiever's propery and liberty.

I tend to agree that we are beyond the point of no return. A fundamentally unfair and amoral tax code shifted the burden to those who produce, so the underachievers who don't pay taxes, have no problems with raising them. Clinton/Gore types actually dare to say that they have to "pay" for the tax cut. How ignorant you have to be to buy this line?

For those who produce, the tax cut is relief, the tax increase is a burden.

For the losers, the opposite is true.

It is to the benefit of the liberal government to maintain the public school system, and to keep the public school what it is now: an "ignoramus factory".

mietla


[This message has been edited by mietla (edited 11-06-2000).]

[Karnak]

So, I'm a loser and the Government is supporting me, eh?

Lets see...

I'm making $46,000.00 a year.

I am not delinquent on any of my debts.

I have health insurance through my workplace.

I am supporting my mother and 4 half siblings, keeping them off of the Government payout list.

I am putting $300.00 a month into a 401K.

The Government is not giving me anything.  I get no tax breaks.  I pay $11,719.50 dollars in taxes each year.

Yeah, the Government sure is subsidizing me.

Idiots.

And if you think that your stereotypes are true, than you really are idiots.

I don't get the impression that F4UDOA is being subsidized either.

Sisu
-Karnak

[1776]

Karnak, based on an income of $42,000.00 no kids and single, your tax cut is 8.9% or a savings of $576.00.  He heeeeee, now we may be giving HT a thought that AH price should go up after Bush is elected  

[This message has been edited by 1776 (edited 11-06-2000).]

[Karnak]

1776,
Which is about $20.00 a paycheck.  Whoohoo.  I can buy lunch twice.

I'd much rather it be put towards paying off the National Debt.

My ideal candidate would be as follows:

Pro-choice:  Gore 1, Bush 0
Pro-Environment:  Gore 1, Bush -1
Pro Campaign Finance Reform:  Gore .5, Bush 0
Pro paying off the National Debt:  Gore .11, Bush .1
Honest:  Gore 0, Bush 0
People oriented, not business oriented:  Gore 0, Bush 0

Out of a possible 6, Gore scores 2.61 and Bush scores -.9

Sisu
-Karnak

[1776]

Ok, $20 is no big deal!!!  I will e-mail you my addy and you can start sending me the money today

Thanks in advance I will spend it so jobs can be created

Oh, boy, a new puter will soon be on the way to my house,thanks Karnak

[mietla]

There is no word "Karnak" in my post.

[F4UDOA]

Karnak,

You are truly "Karnak the amazing" HiOOO!
A little Johnny Carson humor incase anyone is wondering.

You hit the nail on the head. George W. is like a magician. He dangles a shiny object in front of your face(tax cut) and then he takes your whole wallet. And it is in the case of someone truly middle class, 40,000 dollars a year. A 20 dollar a week savings  
And that is a lye to because that money that is ear-marked for this tax cut IE. the budget surplus has already been spent by the republican congress. So as they say in my neighborhood "Fawget aboud it". It's vapor ware and the election hasn't even started yet. Mark my words, you will never see this tax cut.

LJK Raubvogel,

You obviously think I'm joking when I bring up such groups as the moonies and Hare Krishna's but I'm not. You see they, and all others would fall under the same broad sword as other private and parochial schools. Every special interest will be fighting for these vouchers and we will foot the bill.

But the real issue hear lies with the ethics of giving ANY religious group in this country government money. You talk about it they they are private contractors bidding on a government job. This is a grave error.
What these groups are is

A. Some of the most wealthy organizations in the world.

B. Most important, completely tax exempt. They don't even pay real estate tax on their enormous compounds across the country. I have read where if the Catholic church would just pay their real estate tax the national debt would be eliminated.

C. Having No government regulation as to what they teach or how they treat children. This country is already full of poorly educated children. It is now supposed to get better when there is no oversight? Also these schools do not have to allow all minorities or trouble children. Are they less deserving of an education or protection from the bill of rights.

Are these the groups that Tax dollars should go to? You can turn on your TV at any time of the day or night and find some religious group panhandling for cash from usually the poor or elderly to give to who? Last time I checked Jerry Farwell was a millionare and the Pope lives in a Gold plated city.

Why does God need cash?

Later F4UDOA

"Religion is the opiate of the people"

BTW, I predict George W. will win this election. And I only hope that these boards are here in 4 years so I can say I told you so!



[This message has been edited by F4UDOA (edited 11-06-2000).]

[Peter V]

Just one more day and this will all be over and done with.

Hrmm, what would you Republicans do if Bush won the election but the Electotal College apointed Gore president.  They have the right to do so as was appointed by your founding fathers.  Remember you live in a republic, not a democracy.

BTW, speaking of sterotypes Eagler, you were the first to sterotype Arabs.

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[This message has been edited by Peter V (edited 11-06-2000).]

[mietla]

BTW, Gore is not for environment (or education, or any of the issues he demagogs). He uses those issue to grab more power for the government and himself. The last thing the libs want to do is to solve the problem. They'd rather perpetuate a misery and victimhood atmosphere (real or imaginary), because this leaves them  in a position of indispensible "saviors" and "benefactors" of the nation.

[mietla]

 

Originally posted by Peter V:
Hrmm, what would you Republicans do if Bush won the election but the Electotal College apointed Gore president.  They have the right to do so as was appointed by your founding fathers.  Remember you live in a republic, not a democracy.

Yes you are correct. The electoral college can nulify the elections at their whim (just like the OJ jury did). I believe though, that their vote does not stick automatically, but it must be approved by the States who apoointed the electors.


I would not be surprised if the Clintonites pulled this off. There is nothing they would not do, to hold on to power.