Are Palm Beach residents really ignorant or is their intelligence being insulted?

[Eagler]

I second that Caveman. I for one would like to see a sample recount in 10% of the states just for accuracy purposes. This is making Florida look like it was an inside job set up by his brother. I think it's voter stupidity combined with inaccuracies within the voting poll center themselves. The recount is where the numbers are getting hosed not the original vote. I think you'd find discrepancies in every state if you looked. I can only speak for my voting district, but the average age of the poll worker looked about 101. Senior citizen volunteers.  

Eagler

[Lance]

I'm with Lynx.  I dunno about that image.  Having the huge black text blurbs pointing out where it could be misinterpreted make it pretty damned hard to misinterpret    I could see people glancing at that (minus the blurbs) and voting mistakingly.  Is that their fault for not taking the time to make sure they understood the ballot?  Yep!

That ballot shouldn't invalidate the election, but to me it looks like a poor layout that should be corrected in the future.  If nothing else, it could confuse unnecessarily and gives the loser a reason to cry foul.

Gordo

[This message has been edited by Lance (edited 11-09-2000).]

[1776]

I saw one of these confused voters on CNN.  I don't think he knows which way is up and would be confused by any kind of a ballot.  It's sad the Dems have to resort to such actions to overturn the election!!!  

[This message has been edited by 1776 (edited 11-09-2000).]

[LJK Raubvogel]

Run for your lives, Jesse Jackson has decided to stick his nose into it. Be prepared to hear a bunch of jibberish that rhymes.

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[Fury]

In response to a previous post in this thread;
 http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/09/election.president/index.html

"Officials in Palm Beach announced 19,120 ballots in the presidential race were tossed out before they were counted because more than one candidate was picked. "

Sounds to me that like the "confused" voters, there were other weenies who "accidently" voted for more than one candidate.

Certainly can't blame officials for ignorant voters.

Besides, it does not say if they are Democratic or Republican voters (how can you tell which one is right if they voted wrong LOL).

Fury

<alsmost as bad as the "lost" ballot box found in a church, that turned out to be a non-issue. Certain Dems were crying foul until they were shown how stupid they were>

[Nash]

Heard a few people say that on it's own, yah, it's slightly confusing.... but supposedly it's real confusion is caused by how this ballot looks when ya stick it in the machine.

Look, it's fine for us to debate how confusing or simple this ballot is.... but the simple fact is that it confused the toejam out of more than 20,000 people who had their votes trashed because of it.  Calling them "morons" seems a little flippant.

Sure, the ballot was approved by some democrat ... as was the Firestone tire design approved by some execs at Ford. In a way.... these things are removed and have nothing to do with the people that have to live with these types of decisions.

This ballot thing.... It's a technicality...and it shouldn't be. Not in a Presidential election. We are talking about the *will* of the people.... no ballot should negate that.

More people in West Palm Beach *intended*  to vote for Gore rather than Bush. It's really that simple.

And this means more people in Florida want Gore over Bush. Hell.... More people in the entire country..... two hundred thousand more.... want Gore over Bush.

[LJK Raubvogel]

With the millions of citizens who voted nationwide, don't you think that the same mistake was probably made in other states? What are we to do, just call it a "do-over" and vote nationwide again? I'm sure there are many thousands who cast errant votes, or had there votes disqualified. The difference is that Florida is in the media spotlight. If no laws were broken, and proper procedures for implementing the ballots were followed, then I say "oh well." Maybe next time they will take a bit more time on something this important.

One thing that makes me curious. Why haven't we heard from any of the other parties complaining about this? I haven't heard anyone mention "Hey I wanted to vote for Nader, but I think I voted for Gore."

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[Fatty]

Nash, the danger in calling a revote, is it sets a precedent that anytime the conclusion is not desired, you can simply call fraud and revote.

Now, why not just let them revote?  Well, it sounds very logical, but....when those people voted the first time, they did not know the results of every other state in the USA, and every other county in Florda.  The only way to correct the problem is to brainwash them to ignore everything that's happened this week and only then have them vote again.  If you can figure a way to do that I'm all for it.

[Lance]

 

Run for your lives, Jesse Jackson has decided to stick his nose into it. Be prepared to hear a bunch of jibberish that rhymes.

Heh!

[Nash]

Totally agree Fatty....  A revote would be skewed now I reckon.... knowing, like you said, the outcome of the election. What a mess.
 
As for your first point... well... it's not about just calling fraud. Nobody with any hope of a long political career would start screaming fraud where no evidence exists. In the event though that evidence *does* exist... well... then he has a point... and every right to find out if the last year and I don't know how many millions of dollars later was just tanked due to fraud. Yeah, he has every right. As much as the people have the right t... er...I'm getting sidetracked here. Fraud isn't the issue in Florida.

Two choices here.

We can have a re-vote with skewed results that, in any event, *would at least* reflect the will of the people in West Palm Beach. At the same time, yes, this sets an extremely dangerous precedent.

Or...

Let stand a result that in fact bears no relation to reality, and give the Presidency to someone who the majority of people in Palm Beach....and Florida....AND the entire United States itself does not want.

Either way, it's a hell of a situation y'all worked yerselves into down there  

[Yeager]

In the 1996 Presidential election, 16,000 votes were invalidated in the same precinct.

No one squeaked about it because Clinton took Florida anyway.

Seems these ballots in question were designed by a democrat and approved by another democrat EVEN AFTER having so many thrown out in 96'

Sample ballots were posted in the media weeks in advance of the election and no one complained.  If anyone ***knowingly*** fouled a ballot, they could have destroyed it and legally requested another.  I have no sympathy for anyone who screws up their ballot and doesnt even know enough to KNOW that they SCREWED up their ballot.

The Libs are pissng all over themselves and its FUNNY AS HELL.....

Nash said:
Let stand a result that in fact bears no relation to reality, and give the Presidency to someone who the majority of people in Palm Beach....and Florida....AND the entire United States itself does not want.
====
Whoa Nash,

Appx One hundred million votes cast and Gore leads the popular vote by appx 200,000.  Fact is Bush won a majority of states and lost half a dozen other states by less than 7,000 and three of those by less than  2,000 votes.

There is damned near a plurality of Americans who prefer Bush over Gore.  Amazing when you consider the economy!

Yeager

[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 11-09-2000).]

[Eagler]

What's all the confusion about?

   

Eagler

[Nash]

Quoteth Yeager:

 

Appx One hundred million votes cast and Gore leads the popular vote by appx 200,000. Fact is Bush won a majority of states and lost half a dozen other states by less than 7,000 and three of those by less than 2,000 votes.

There is damned near a plurality of Americans who prefer Bush over Gore. Amazing when you consider the economy!

You say there is a plurality  of people that prefer Bush over Gore. Not getting into the contradiction problem within' that sentence alone, you are wrong about this. You said it yourself - 200,000 more people voted for Gore. Doesn't matter by how much in whatever state.

The Electoral College result is irrelevant to that. However, as it stands now, Gore is leading there *as well*.

So I don't know exactly what you are trying to say here... and whatever it is, I certainly don't think it merits the "Whoah Nash..."  

If there is any factual dispute you may have with anything I have said - I invite you to point it out  

[Toad]

The best part about this entire election is that it is underlining the importance of a single vote.

Perhaps NEXT time those that do stir their stumps and get out and vote will take the time to MAKE DAMN SURE THEY DO IT RIGHT.

There are no "re-do's".

A vote is one of your most sacred possessions; if you can't take the time to do it right it's no one's fault but your own.

Every single election, in every single state people mark ballots incorrectly.

This ballot was not secret, in fact it was widely shown before the election and APPROVED by all parties.

No whining. They had their chance to do it right. Responsibilities come with the vote; studying the ballot is one of them.

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 11-09-2000).]

[Regurge]

 

Originally posted by Nash:
This ballot thing.... It's a technicality...and it shouldn't be. Not in a Presidential election. We are talking about the *will* of the people.... no ballot should negate that.

More people in West Palm Beach *intended*  to vote for Gore rather than Bush. It's really that simple.

Nash how is it that u are so in touch with "the will of the people" of West Palm Beach? How do you know that the only people that screwed up really intended to vote for Gore?

There is some degree of truth to your statements, but as a matter of priciple, that quote disgusts me. If the politicians start spouting crap like that and the people start buying it... lookout.

Back in my Thermodynamics course we had the exact same problem appear on 3 separate exams (out of about 5 total), and still there were people that got it wrong all three times. No matter how simple and easy you make something, someone WILL find a way to screw it up. Every voter got the same ballot, and each had as much time and assistance as they wanted. If anyone messed it up, its their own fault and they have to deal with the consequences.