Author Topic: Ground combat videos fron Adfghanistan, July 2006  (Read 1346 times)

Offline Toad

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Ground combat videos fron Adfghanistan, July 2006
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2006, 06:31:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
42 minutes is a difficult goal, but with $300B and all of the forces that were prematurely pulled out to go chasing snipes in the Persian Gulf,  who knows what the CIA and military could have done there?


Well maybe we could have somehow pacified the border region in Pakistan where the current crop of A-Q and Taliban retreads are hanging out.

I don't think Pakistan would let us invade that area militarily though, do you?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline lazs2

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Ground combat videos fron Adfghanistan, July 2006
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2006, 08:11:46 AM »
none of this would have happened if we had just all converted to funamentalist muslim when we found out that they were angry with us.

or.... we could just encourage them to act like socialists.

lazs

Offline DoctorYO

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Ground combat videos fron Adfghanistan, July 2006
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2006, 11:44:46 AM »
4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2006, 05:59:23 PM by MP4 »

Offline Seagoon

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Ground combat videos fron Adfghanistan, July 2006
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2006, 12:03:08 PM »
Yo,

Having spoken frequently with guys who have been over there, while the mountains and the caves are a big problem, the terrain is not the problem with subduing Afghanistan - the borders are.

At present the current Taliban/Al Qaeda policy is to establish permanent camps in Pakistan and then raid into Afghanistan, using friendly villages as base camps for operations. When they have pulled a few ambushes, planted some mines, triggered some IEDs, decapitated some teachers, and blown up the new hospital and water supply, they retreat back into their safe areas in Pakistan. Meanwhile, their losses are constantly replaced by new Jihadis being trained in the Pakistani Masjids and Madrassas. To win in Afghanistan, we would have to dismantle that Jihadi support/safety infrastructure on the Pakistani side of the border, which would involve elminating the schools of Islamic instruction on that side - which obviously isn't going to happen.

So instead we will fight an endless hit and run war with them, and as soon as US politics finally forces us to withdraw, they'll gradually tighten the noose around the Afghan government in Kabul, kill all the teachers, bomb the new schools, hospitals, and whatever infrastructure we've added, eliminate the aid organizations, assasinate the local government and then eventually topple the new government and then reestablish the Islamic Talibani government, make the country into one huge Jihadi training camp and return the people of Afghanistan to the endless cycle of oppression, misery and hopelessness they endured throughout the 90s.

We'll lose, because unlike the Jihadis, we refuse to accept we are at war with an ideology and act accordingly, not because of some difficult terrain.

- SEAGOON
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline Nilsen

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Ground combat videos fron Adfghanistan, July 2006
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2006, 12:09:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seagoon
Yo,

Having spoken frequently with guys who have been over there, while the mountains and the caves are a big problem, the terrain is not the problem with subduing Afghanistan - the borders are.

At present the current Taliban/Al Qaeda policy is to establish permanent camps in Pakistan and then raid into Afghanistan, using friendly villages as base camps for operations. When they have pulled a few ambushes, planted some mines, triggered some IEDs, decapitated some teachers, and blown up the new hospital and water supply, they retreat back into their safe areas in Pakistan. Meanwhile, their losses are constantly replaced by new Jihadis being trained in the Pakistani Masjids and Madrassas. To win in Afghanistan, we would have to dismantle that Jihadi support/safety infrastructure on the Pakistani side of the border, which would involve elminating the schools of Islamic instruction on that side - which obviously isn't going to happen.

So instead we will fight an endless hit and run war with them, and as soon as US politics finally forces us to withdraw, they'll gradually tighten the noose around the Afghan government in Kabul, kill all the teachers, bomb the new schools, hospitals, and whatever infrastructure we've added, eliminate the aid organizations, assasinate the local government and then eventually topple the new government and then reestablish the Islamic Talibani government, make the country into one huge Jihadi training camp and return the people of Afghanistan to the endless cycle of oppression, misery and hopelessness they endured throughout the 90s.

We'll lose, because unlike the Jihadis, we refuse to accept we are at war with an ideology and act accordingly, not because of some difficult terrain.

- SEAGOON



Very true Seagoon. I saw a report by our special forces operating in the mountains and they frequently ambush small Taliban groups moving across the border. The guys can spend up to 14 days in a small OP close to trails and they ambush the taliban warriors as soon as they get a positive ID that they are armed. Problem is that they cant know for sure if they are taliban or not until they ge verifiaction from other sources or they are clearly armed. They cant pop ou and ask either cause then they may reveal their OP so often they just report them and let them pass for others to deal with. Im glad im not the one hiking with 100kg packs and living in cramped OPs for 2 weeks at a time.

Offline FUNKED1

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Ground combat videos fron Adfghanistan, July 2006
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2006, 02:23:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Well maybe we could have somehow pacified the border region in Pakistan where the current crop of A-Q and Taliban retreads are hanging out.

I don't think Pakistan would let us invade that area militarily though, do you?


You're right, it's impossible.  We shouldn't have attempted it in the first place.  No amount or money or troops or materiel could have sped things up.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2006, 02:34:55 PM by FUNKED1 »

Offline Toad

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« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2006, 05:55:53 PM »
4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 09:59:34 AM by MP4 »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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Ground combat videos fron Adfghanistan, July 2006
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2006, 05:58:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
You're right, it's impossible.  We shouldn't have attempted it in the first place.  No amount or money or troops or materiel could have sped things up.


I don't think it's impossible at all. However, you're propagating the idea that somehow money/troops/material would settle it forever.

As was discussed in another thread about who owns the land, the fighting goes on until one side completely gives up. Clearly, A-Q and the Taliban haven't completely given up yet.

I am sorry that it seems to have exceeded your allowed time for a permanent solution.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline FUNKED1

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Ground combat videos fron Adfghanistan, July 2006
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2006, 06:29:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
I don't think it's impossible at all. However, you're propagating the idea that somehow money/troops/material would settle it forever.

As was discussed in another thread about who owns the land, the fighting goes on until one side completely gives up. Clearly, A-Q and the Taliban haven't completely given up yet.

I am sorry that it seems to have exceeded your allowed time for a permanent solution.


And all the money and men and materiel that the PNACers pissed away in Iraq wouldn't have made a difference.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2006, 06:36:25 PM by FUNKED1 »

Offline Toad

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« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2006, 07:06:10 PM »
Where are the problem areas in Afghanistan right now?

Either on the border with Iran or the border with Pakistan, don't you agree?

Pakistan has been pretty resolute about not allowing US or Coalition military operations on its territory.

Iran would probably consider it an act of war.

I don't think money/troops/equipment would change either of those situations.

Do you think the A-Q/Taliban operate freely in Afghanistan proper? Or have they been fairly well contained?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline nirvana

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« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2006, 09:04:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mustaine
what was that in the box at the end? (no sound here at work) someone's head?


The statue of Saddam Hussein that was so magnificently torn down, that's the head.
Who are you to wave your finger?

Offline DoctorYO

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Ground combat videos fron Adfghanistan, July 2006
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2006, 09:01:09 AM »
6- Members are asked to not act as "back seat moderators". Issues with any breach of rules should be brought to HTC's attention via email at support@hitechcreations.com.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 10:00:21 AM by MP4 »

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2006, 09:10:21 AM »
See rule #4
« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 09:48:54 AM by MP5 »