Author Topic: BnZ and Surprise in the MA (Read 626 times)

Stoney74 · « **on:** July 16, 2006, 03:00:26 AM »

From reading, it seems like U.S. tactics were greatly aided by the element of surprise. If you fly a plane in the MA that doesn't turn well, against a plane that does, how do you set up a successful BnZ attack when they know you're there. I fly a Zero a lot for base defense, and its almost impossible to get BnZ'd. If I know they're coming in, I can always turn away. I like flying the jug, but I can't figure out how to knife fight with it, and I can't really ever seem to set up a successful BnZ with it either, as the victim always turns away to avoid the shot. I don't slow down to avoid overshooting since I don't want to get caught low and slow in a Jug. I know there are studs like Yucca and Blukitty who can make them dance regardless, but for an average stick such as myself, how can I make the plane successful in the MA? Or, is it one of those that's doomed due to the nature of the MA fight?

TheThang · « **Reply #1 on:** July 16, 2006, 03:07:49 AM »

you know how cars have blindspots? well planes have them to. Generally for bnz come down and stay below the airplane your attacking, then jump up and blast him away when you have the shot

TexInVa · « **Reply #2 on:** July 16, 2006, 04:45:27 AM »

I tend to spend a lot of time in the training area learning a new aircraft before I try it exclusivly in the MA. I'll play "follow the leader" for a few days (couple hours a day) until I'm comfortable in the plane. Usually, I can find someone competent enough in their aircraft to give me fits just trying to keep up.

Zazen13 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 16, 2006, 07:58:21 AM »

I'll give you a hint...

Almost noone sees you coming from straight above, and if they do, no matter where they turn it only requires a small adjustment on your part if you're coming from the pure vertical down on them...

Zazen

Max · « **Reply #4 on:** July 16, 2006, 09:51:48 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Zazen13
I'll give you a hint...

Almost noone sees you coming from straight above, and if they do, no matter where they turn it only requires a small adjustment on your part if you're coming from the pure vertical down on them...

Zazen

Zazen what's your usual alt above your prey when you go nose down? I used to try that tactic with a Typhoon only to overshoot the target. The lower guy always seems to wiggle a quick evasive as I'm about to let loose with hizookas which suggests he saw me comin.

B@tfinkV · « **Reply #5 on:** July 16, 2006, 10:18:39 AM »

the secret is to get good at shooting from 600 - 800 yrds.

For BnZ the majority will start thier evasives between 2000 - 1000 yrds so wait for the first move and anticipate where they are going. set your convergence for all four 50s to 400 yrds and aim to finish the kill between 600-400 yrds. 50cals have almost lazer acuracy up to about 800 yrds.

Max · « **Reply #6 on:** July 16, 2006, 10:32:24 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
the secret is to get good at shooting from 600 - 800 yrds.

While I'll agree with you on the flat trajectory of the 50 cals, I just can't manage to land more than a sprite or two at that distance. Even at 400, most of my 50 cal kills are sists. What sucks is that I enjoy most of the 50 cal rides

Zazen13 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 16, 2006, 10:55:02 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Max
Zazen what's your usual alt above your prey when you go nose down? I used to try that tactic with a Typhoon only to overshoot the target. The lower guy always seems to wiggle a quick evasive as I'm about to let loose with hizookas which suggests he saw me comin.

Rudder is your friend in the Typhoon, it can't roll but from the pure vertical you can use rudder to change your nose attitude very easily. From the pure vertical an enemy turning never leaves your forward arc. The more horizontal your pass the greater the target can potentially move out of your forward arc with a break turn or other manuever.

My favorite tactic against BnZ'ers is what I call the 'suck drag' that is to say I don't turn right away, I shallow dive, slowing their rate of closure and increasing their control compression. So, when I do break they've blown alot of E and I can chop and split-S or whatever to force an over-shoot while they are under heavy control compression, before they can chop and follow I've gotten away and made them pay a high price in E for their wasted pass.

So, when attacking I prefer to not be more than 2-3k icon range from them, if further than that, your own control compression becomes a problem and you will be wasting alot of E for the pass. If I see them doing the suck drag on me, I do not follow. I track them after consolidating my own Energy, in effect preventing them from climbing and re-gaining E themselves. As soon as I see them trying to climb or change vector I will get directly above them and prepare for another pass. If they continue to dive or run I generally let them go preferring to save my E for higher, more immediately threatening game.

Zazen

Max · « **Reply #8 on:** July 16, 2006, 01:19:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Zazen13
Rudder is your friend in the Typhoon

So, when attacking I prefer to not be more than 2-3k icon range from them

Zazen

That's pretty much the tactic used by another infamous Tiffy driver. He hangs above about 4K and lets them climb up until seperations closed to 2K and they've reached stall speed. BAM - kick the rudder and let the nose point down.

Zazen13 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 16, 2006, 01:31:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Max
That's pretty much the tactic used by another infamous Tiffy driver. He hangs above about 4K and lets them climb up until seperations closed to 2K and they've reached stall speed. BAM - kick the rudder and let the nose point down.

I assume you're talking about xdak? He flies alot like I do...

Zazen

Max · « **Reply #10 on:** July 16, 2006, 01:35:16 PM »

Nope, Coach.

Zazen13 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 16, 2006, 01:42:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Max
Nope, Coach.

Ahhh, never seen him in action I don't think...

Zazen

Max · « **Reply #12 on:** July 16, 2006, 01:44:27 PM »

When he's on his game I'll put him up against any Tiffy drver in the game. Helleva gent too.

Kermit de frog · « **Reply #13 on:** July 16, 2006, 02:08:41 PM »

Someone say typhoon?

Spatula · « **Reply #14 on:** July 16, 2006, 05:12:26 PM »

First, get good at high-angle deflection shooting. This aint easy, practice, practice, practice, and then practice for another year.

Secondly, think about how you attack your victim. Attack with the sun behind you, or attack from a direction he's not expecting (eg from behind his friendly line towards your base - they tend to expect enemies only to come in a straight line from their bases towards them so circle round behind em), thirdly dive lower than him from the rear and come in from their blind-spot, you'll know if they know your there or not cause they keep tipping and sliding to see where you are, if they dont, they're yours

Thirdly, learn to feint an attack, or learn to bait them into thinking the E is more equal than it really is. Make a run at em (a feint) and see how they react, use this knowledge for the next run. Or make a run at em, trying to bait them into manuevering vertically with you when they cant match you and clobber them when they wallow once they've overcommitted themselves.

Lastly, and not least, be unusually and extremely aggressive in a plane which people wouldnt expect it - eg the Jug. You just have to keep the fight fast (this means short-duration Hi-G vertical fights). The Jug packs a mighty punch and can soak up damage. Turn very hard (but using vert) a couple of times to see if you can sucker some easy angles out of your opponent, but break off before you scrub too much E as it basically doesnt accelerate well at all. This is prob not a N00B option.

If ya wanna fly the jug, it's not and will never be a knife-fighter, so learn to use it as a BnZ or Energy fighter.