Author Topic: The last stem, err, I mean straw (Read 2331 times)

Nifty · « **Reply #60 on:** July 20, 2006, 01:30:44 PM »

Furious, way to go trying to bring actual facts about the Bill into the discussion! You ruined the whole abortion for money argument that some people have going on here. That's just downright mean.

In all seriousness, the veto is nothing more than another attempt to "mobilize" the conservatives to vote Republican in the Congressional and Gubernatorial elections this fall. Same thing with all of the "American Values" bills Congress has been putting up here and there.

It's mobilizing this conservative alright. Mobilizing me to want to vote against every Republican I see on my fall ballot.

lazs2 · « **Reply #61 on:** July 20, 2006, 02:35:54 PM »

neubob... a case could be made that the constitution does provide for the government to protect us with a military. I see nothing in it that says the government should fund research. or.... endowment for the arts or whatever.

this is simply a matter where a lot of people find it repugnant. Why should such a thing be supported with tax money?

It would be a much different thing if we were talking about a ban.... we are not. We are talking merely of not funding the aspects that so many people find repugnant.

At a state level this is not the case..... In Kalifornia here we voted on investing in stem cell research and it was voted in. I voted against it but only because I think government allways wastes money and slows progress.

Solar is my example.... their rebate program is killing meaningful reseach. You only have to look at the old solar hot water heating rebate programs that were such a scam in the last "energy crisis"

you speak of nukes and hi tech weapons... I say that there is tremendous waste in such things but it is the price we have to pay since defence and weaponry are by their nature....loseres..

As for roads.... no...the government should not be involved except perhaps in a reglatory way. Think about it... do you think roads would not be built without the government?

schools... worse every decade under government control.... vouchers would give us all more for our money.

lazs

BGBMAW · « **Reply #62 on:** July 20, 2006, 02:41:05 PM »

If stem cells are SOOO GREAT!!

THEN F this crap..private companies should foot the bill...

Why do you have to force folks to pay for EVERYTHING!!!

Trully GHEY

Good job georgie boy!!

x0847Marine · « **Reply #63 on:** July 20, 2006, 03:25:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
neubob... a case could be made that the constitution does provide for the government to protect us with a military. I see nothing in it that says the government should fund research. or.... endowment for the arts or whatever.

this is simply a matter where a lot of people find it repugnant. Why should such a thing be supported with tax money?

lazs

How much do 'we' pay to treat sick people (read medicare; disability) as it is? nobody has a right to medicare, or free health care.

When is thae last time you had polio?, never?.. thank tax $$ for that. Just try to figure out how much tax $$ has been saved since we no longer pay to treat this disease...

Stem cells could lead to cures / treatments for dozens of illnesses / diseases that cost tax payers billions as it is.

But if it's just about the $$, put a tax dollar value on repairing a paralyzed persons injury which not only allows them to live a normal productive life, but gets them off lifelong disability?

Naahh...screw the sick & injured, they have no right to anything. Come to think of it you have no right to a paved roads, traffic signals, flush toilets, or running water.. yet tax $$, every day, gets wasted on such trivial ammonites that nobody has a right to, but everyone enjoys.

It's a quality of life thing, we pay out the nose daily for them... the sick & injured pay taxes too..

Something tells me youd rather life in a disease filled banana republic.

BGBMAW · « **Reply #64 on:** July 20, 2006, 05:07:50 PM »

marine..if its SO GREAT!!>.Why wouldn those money Hording Pharm compaines be jumping all over it?..

I have an idea..They like ..GOV TAKING YOUR MONEY ..AND GIVING IT TO THEM

Can you explain why theses comapines arent spending there own money to develop stem cells stuff?

RedTop · « **Reply #65 on:** July 20, 2006, 07:16:59 PM »

Embryonic stem cell research is a long ways from cureing anything. Federal funding would possibly help speed the research up. This veto just means no government funding. Not that the reasearch cant be done. Nothing changed here.

Gonna get passed in a couple more years anyway.

lazs2 · « **Reply #66 on:** July 21, 2006, 09:59:41 AM »

xmarine... are you saying that the government cured polio? LOL.

medicare? of course we have a "right" to it since we are being forced to pay for it. I have private health insurance.... it is better.

They are not talking about that much money here tho on the stem cell thing... if you truely believe it is the wave of the future you are wellcome to invest in it. Kalifornia is spending billions and you can invest. There is no law against it.

What you want is to decide what is the best way for everyone to spend their money. You want a more powerful government and socialism while I want less of both.

If you lived out in the country and a guy came up and said... "Hi, I am one of your neighbors and we all got together and most of us decided that people round here will all go to church every sunday" You would say... great but.... no thanks. They would then say.... "you have no choice.. we have decided.. if you don't go we will come and drag you out of your house and lock you up in a basement for 5 years. If you try to resist we will probly kill you...oh... and this will all cost money.... you need to send us $50 a month to pay for it."

You would think you were on another planet but... that is socialism and perfectly logical if you believe in democracy and the good of the people justifying actions against individuals.

The government has no right to take my money for most of the things they do.... They have no right to protect me from my own actions either.

If stem cell research is worthwhile then a private company will develop it.

You can't in good concience ask people to fund something that is against their moral beliefes and does not insure the safety of the nation they inhabit from attack.

lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #67 on:** July 21, 2006, 10:05:39 AM »

and xmarine.... How is it my responsibilty to take care of the sick and injured? It should be my choice. It is my responsibilty to not make people sick or injure them and that is it. If I do then government should be there to stop me.

You are acting like stem cells are the cure for everything and.... even more silly... that the only way they can ever be brought to us is if the feds take our money and "invest" it.

I guess living in a large city it does seem that the only way to survive is with a strong government regulating every little thing in ones life.

lazs

Sandman · « **Reply #68 on:** July 21, 2006, 10:10:57 AM »

Damn straight. We shouldn't be using our tax dollars to help Americans.

We've got Iraqis to liberate and Israeli soldiers to support.

They should come first.

lazs2 · « **Reply #69 on:** July 21, 2006, 10:17:35 AM »

damn straight we shouldn't be using our tax dollars to help anyone.

We may invade another country if we feel it will in some way PROTECT us. That is governments job... not saying we are rigth or wrong on iraq but if we are right then we have a lot more constitutional right to be there than to come up with soicial security (good one there huh?) or..... stem cell research or even medicare.

How is forcing me to pay for government charity programs protecting my rights?

lazs

Shuckins · « **Reply #70 on:** July 21, 2006, 07:22:55 PM »

If that bill ever passes I am going to INVENT new ways to cheat on my taxes.

The moral issue is real for me. But research results using fetal stem cells have been abysmally bad, which should be apparent to anyone who investigated the issue to any great extent. Far more promising results have been achieved with the research into the use of adult stem cells and blood cord stem cells.

Cord blood cells in particular have been used to successfully treat 6,000 patients and 66 known diseases.

Fetal stem cells have proven to be wildly unpredictable, seldom producing the types of cell development the researchers desired, and have led to the development of numerous malignant cancers in the test animals.

History has shown that there is usually no lack of private funding for types of research that proves promising. In these cases, federal funding is seldom needed.

Debonair · « **Reply #71 on:** July 21, 2006, 07:51:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Shuckins
If that bill ever passes I am going to INVENT new ways to cheat on my taxes....

there is a lot more & better competition is that sphere than in stem cell research.
best of luck & please report any discoveries

lazs2 · « **Reply #72 on:** July 22, 2006, 09:21:59 AM »

shukins... I don't share your morality on this probly but I understand it. I do not believe that I have the right to force you to pay for such research.

unlike the socialists here... I do not pretend to be the keeper of the morals or to know what is best for you and yours.

lazs

Sandman · « **Reply #73 on:** July 22, 2006, 01:10:30 PM »

Be very very quiet. The socialists might hear you.

lazs2 · « **Reply #74 on:** July 23, 2006, 10:11:32 AM »

So sandie.... you believe that having government fund programs is not socialist or... what? Maybe you believe that the only way anything can get done is if we give money to the government for them to use to solve problems? Oh wait... that is socialism...

Nope. I don't want the government to solve any problems except military ones and to fund the court system. One group of federal marshalls is enough to replace the whole endless alphabet soup of federal "police".

I just want to start rolling their power back... you seem to be willing to increase it so long as it is something you deem worthy.

Problem is... whoever is in power has a whole new group of projects and programs (tax supprorted) that his supporters deem worthy (and that you may not)

end result... no matter who is in power... the government gains more in power every year and we lose ours.

Do you ever even consider rolling back their power when it is something you like?

Hell... I would like em to give money to Hot rod museums all over the country and a huge rebate on every speed part bought but I would never vote for it. silly example I know but sillier have been done to increase government power with the gleeful consent of the self serving and self rightious.

lazs