This has not been deliberate targeting, but has rather been due to tactical necessity

[Maverick]

Originally posted by xrtoronto
the Canadian that was killed was NOT a civilian. He was a Major in the Canadian Forces. But that doesn't matter to you...if he's not american or israeli he's just another piece of s***. Very nice sentiment indeed.

Actually that's not what he said at all. He did not gloat that your countryman died. On the contrary he recognised that the ones responsible for the situation were the hugahunks using the UN position as human shields. Something you and thrawn can't seem to grasp.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Maverick
Actually that's not what he said at all. He did not gloat that your countryman died. On the contrary he recognised that the ones responsible for the situation were the hugahunks using the UN position as human shields. Something you and thrawn can't seem to grasp.

Actually I think thrawn gets it but torronto is probably blinded by BDS .  He doesn't seem to grasp that its the hezballah that are to blame here, not the Canadians or the IDF.  

Unless of course he thinks that fighting amongst civilians and peackeepers is a "tactical nescesity" for terrorists?

[Fishu]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
I find it tragic that some peacekeepers got killed in all of this but to blame the IDF is wrong.  It is the terrorists that fight amongst colateral targets not the IDF.

First they hammer the site dead on with an artillery strike and then they nail it dead on with a precision bomb. How much more deliberate action does it need to be?

Heres the place where Khami UN observation post was located: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&ie=UTF8&t=k&om=1&ll=33.320129,35.608594&spn=0.006374,0.009978

The grey area in the middle is a rather famous prison, where Israelis tortured people some couple of decades ago. The UN observation post is roughly 500 feet south of the prison, where the trees are.

Look at the location, theres nothing for over 500ft around the post and it's on a hilltop. You don't miss with a precision guided bomb that bad, but yet manage to nail dead on some another building. Especially not after 10 calls from the post whilst they've been under artillery fire. After the IDF realised their mistake, they decided to fire on the people coming to help!
That's as much mistake as executing a kneeling person in the neck - first person is put to kneel, then he pleads for his life, then a gun happens to be in someones hand and it accidentally discharges right in the neck of the kneeling person. Then the same gun accidentally discharges at a person running to the victim of an accidental shot.

[Seagoon]

Fishu,

"Precision Guided Munitions" is a phrase that I wish we'd drop from the popular lexicon. It conjures up images of bombs that always fall exactly on the guys we intend them to. guided munition or "smarter than your average dumb bomb" would be a far more accurate description.  

I have personally spoken with men who have called in airstrikes and given the right co-ords and then had the ordinance drop on their own position the same is true of laser and GPS targeting. Stories here of "friendly fire accidents" are legion and having your own artillery take you out goes back to the invention of gunpowder. That the Israelis goofed in the same way the US goofed in Serbia and Libya and took out Neutral targets isn't a big stretch of the imagination to me. With so much ordinance falling and Hezbollah fighting from the middle of civilian targets I'm surprised we haven't seen more accidents of this type.

- SEAGOON

[john9001]

what in the hell is the UN doing there? certainly not "keeping the peace", get the blue hats out of there and leave the fighting to the fighters.

if and when NATO goes in there i'd like to see hezbola try to set up a rocket base next to them.

[Maverick]

Seagoon,

Don't bother trying to correct fishu. He already knows all there is about military operations and combat. Just because he may not realize trajectory and angle of fall / flight in no way diminishes his unqualified expertise in munitions.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by Seagoon
That the Israelis goofed in the same way the US goofed in Serbia and Libya and took out Neutral targets isn't a big stretch of the imagination to me. With so much ordinance falling and Hezbollah fighting from the middle of civilian targets I'm surprised we haven't seen more accidents of this type.

The big difference here is that they didn't just do one mistake in taking out neutral target, but they HAMMERED the neutral target and prevented the help from arriving. That's not the usual kind of "friendly fire" that you're talking about - that kind of friendly fire usually stops by the time someone calls to stop the totally tubular shelling, not only after 10 calls after which they're dead.

Originally posted by Maverick
He already knows all there is about military operations and combat. Just because he may not realize trajectory and angle of fall / flight in no way diminishes his unqualified expertise in munitions. [/B]

What a cheap response. Mock the other guy and tell he doesn't know squat. What do you know about me? Nothing. That's it, you don't know anything about me, what I know or what I do.

Since you seem so overly smart, why don't you enlight me of the reasons why the post was hammered regardless several calls and direct hits from artillery and precision bombs? How come the army which boasts it's skills and equiptment, managed to miss so many times right on top of a post that is on a hilltop with plenty of empty space around?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Fishu
The big difference here is that they didn't just do one mistake in taking out neutral target, but they HAMMERED the neutral target and prevented the help from arriving. That's not the usual kind of "friendly fire" that you're talking about - that kind of friendly fire usually stops by the time someone calls to stop the totally tubular shelling, not only after 10 calls after which they're dead.

So you would ignore the UN's own finding and come up with your own conclusion that the IDF deliberatly targeted UN peacekeepers?

Have you had a CAT scan lately?

[Fishu]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
So you would ignore the UN's own finding and come up with your own conclusion that the IDF deliberatly targeted UN peacekeepers?

UN has found it to be deliberate action. What have I ignored?

[PonyDriver]

Hey fishu, here's a quote, which you may have already read but chose to ignore, that si from one of the UN observers THAT WAS THERE.  It doesn't get any more first hand than this:

"This has not been deliberate targeting, but rather due to tactical necessity."

Can it be any plainer for you?

[Fishu]

Originally posted by PonyDriver
Hey fishu, here's a quote, which you may have already read but chose to ignore, that si from one of the UN observers THAT WAS THERE.  It doesn't get any more first hand than this:

"This has not been deliberate targeting, but rather due to tactical necessity."

Can it be any plainer for you?

Yup, that was from a week earlier. Back then they didn't have to call 10 times - at least he didn't mention that there was a problem to get the IDF to check fire.
That guys words are an excellent reason for the IDF to "accidentally" hammer the site for good - "hey, the guy said it himself".

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Fishu
UN has found it to be deliberate action. What have I ignored?

That they where targeting hezbollah hiding amongst UN positions.  Do you have a reference where the UN said (other than Kofi spouting off the other day) that UN forces where deliberately targeted?

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unifil/pr011.pdf
There were three incidents of firing close to UN positions in the last 24 hours from the Israeli side. It was also reported that Hezbollah fired from the vicinity of four UN positions at Marwahin, Alma Ash Shab, Bra****, and At Tiri.

http://www.nysun.com/article/36860
An apparent discrepancy in the portrayal of events surrounding the deaths of four unarmed U.N. observers in Lebanon threatens to unravel Secretary-General Annan's initial accusation that Israel "deliberately" targeted the U.N. Interim Force in Lebanon.

A Canadian U.N. observer, one of four killed at a UNIFIL position near the southern Lebanese town of Khiyam on Tuesday, sent an e-mail to his former commander, a Canadian retired major-general, Lewis MacKenzie, in which he wrote that Hezbollah fighters were "all over" the U.N. position, Mr. MacKenzie said. Hezbollah troops, not the United Nations, were Israel's target, the deceased observer wrote.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
That they where targeting hezbollah hiding amongst UN positions.  Do you have a reference where the UN said (other than Kofi spouting off the other day) that UN forces where deliberately targeted?

Do you think they'd hide for hours next to an UN post that is being bombarded? I think not. Even a dumber person knows to relocate and watch the show from down the road.

[PonyDriver]

That guys words are an excellent reason for the IDF to "accidentally" hammer the site for good - "hey, the guy said it himself".

Hey Hezbahfishu,    the info wasn't public  back then, was it?


Lol.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Fishu
Do you think they'd hide for hours next to an UN post that is being bombarded? I think not. Even a dumber person knows to relocate and watch the show from down the road.

SO you are saying "I reject your reality and substitute my own"?  It's in black and white....even the UN has stated that Hezbollah was firing FROM UN positions and the IDF was RETURNING fire.  Of course you can just completly ignore those on the ground actually witnessing the events unfold first hand and just make up your own story as you go along.  Good luck with that.