Author Topic: specializerd fighting areas in MA  (Read 3353 times)

Offline Guyver

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specializerd fighting areas in MA
« Reply #60 on: August 01, 2006, 10:08:44 AM »
i love fighter town it gives me chance to practice dogfighting. they way i see it you aint outnumberd its a target rich enviroment. i kill 1 plane and another will fly by so i attack thet one. one thig i will say more chack6 calls would be nice :)

if you want to play a game where the main object is to win the war or map then buy battlefield. the new one is out in oct. i'll be getting it but only cus i have a bf clan and we compeat in comps ect
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Offline Nightshift82

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« Reply #61 on: August 01, 2006, 11:10:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
kweesy get's it... sunking never has...

Calling the furballers "quake" is ok but... we were there before quake...  

Combat flight sims all started before quake was even thought of...if anything... you play quake with a mouse... just like the "strat" girls.

Flight sims were an excuse to fight WWI and WWII cartoon airplanes against each other... us guys who loved the prop planes were satisfied that we were able to do that and the guys who liked to fight in anything were also happy... we paid big bucks to do it and... if you couldn't hold your own in a fight... you damn sure learned to get better.

The "strat"  was never anything but an excuse to get the fight going... No matter how realistic the planes and the gunnery and the flight models got... the so called "strat" never did anything that was remotely like any war ever waged... it was never meant to.   It still doesn't.

The furballers were..... everyone who played.  

As the price for the flight sims dropped... more and more guys who really couldn't fight and wouldn't try to learn and.... most important... did not want to admit it... came online... some of them were fine.. others were "historians" of a different type... they wanted to recreate war in what was..... a venue that was built for furballing.

The strat hasn't... and probly never will, gotten any more realistic... it is just a bit more complex..  but... the strat girls and untalented want to be respected for their ability to game it...

What happens is... they ruin the game for the most part and... because what they think they want is so frigging boring and wrong...

They never last anyway...they are new guys screetching untill... one day a year or so later... they are simply gone.   Course... the noble furballers had to put up with their childish gameplay and screetching the whole time they were here... and...

At 15 bucks a month... some mom is allways waiting to open another account for someone to take their place.   Maybe they own a j stick... maybe not... what does it matter?  you don't need tools or skill to play the horde warrior.    When you get bored you can allways move on...

The "historians" hang out longer but are allways angry... they may get some high alt "historic" fight once in a great while but can't stand that the whole arena is pretty much ahistorical and nothing they suggest will ever change that... they can't make people fly in formation at alt or allied vs axis or long boring missions with "rank" and the trapings.  

Their idea is that... war was not fun.... flight sims should not be either..

So.... year after year... all that is the core.... all that is left and all that is good about combat flight sims is...

The nobel furballer...  The rest of you are simply playing with yourselves.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's




So in less words you are saying that your way is the best way to play?
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Offline Max

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« Reply #62 on: August 01, 2006, 11:15:43 AM »
ding ding ding ding ding ding...............

we have a winner...no more calls folks

Offline nopoop

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« Reply #63 on: August 01, 2006, 11:52:02 AM »
I have never takin a poll but if I were to guess, I think the average time in flightsims in our squad is probably six or seven years. Lotsa greybeards that go back to the pay by the hour times. My bill averaged $120 a month. Anything over 30 hours was $1.99 and hour.

SD is a youngster, but when we sent him up the mountain to read the sacred stone tablets he came back and his hair had turned white..

..and his face cleared up.

I think if you were to take the average lifespan of a flight simmer we are on the high end of life expectancy. Dale no doubt has the numbers. Bet on it.

From a business point of view Dale has created a MA that is a perfect sandbox. Not the first time he's done it.  This sandbox gives the new person a place in it to actively take part with little time in the cockpit. It's a better design then his first because with small changes in strat it has become easier for the new guy to take part.

The casual gamer with little or no experience can help win the war.  The war that never ends is a constant source of new blood. Excellant business decision.

Where when I started in sims you made every effort to learn how to fight because that is what we did. Now you learn how to win the war.

Some take it upon themselves to learn the fight, but it's no longer a necessary part of the game. Some never do.

Being that us greybeards are a low percentile of the game population that won't change.

I would add that we are printing lazs's PR statement on a fine parchment suitable for framing. The original is over the door at our clubhouse. Please contact the squad for pricing.
nopoop

It's ALL about the fight..

Offline Guyver

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« Reply #64 on: August 01, 2006, 01:04:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2


At 15 bucks a month... some mom is allways waiting to open another account for someone to take their place.   Maybe they own a j stick... maybe not... what does it matter?  you don't need tools or skill to play the horde warrior.    When you get bored you can allways move on...



lol i play world of warcraft aswell and it does take skill. and yes i have a horde warrior. low lvl though as he's an alt. lol

end of the day let ppl play how they want to. its all fun. i take it seriously cus i like war games. im into strat cus i play battlefield. i love this game bcus of the ppl and the team play in teh sky, ground and on water.
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Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2006, 01:08:50 PM »
Quote
A perfect example tonite was how the LTARs were doing there thing at 129. They were taking bases as they like to do. I sat in an Osti for a bit as they steamrolled it with very few of us around to do anything about it. That's what they like to do, more power to em. A few of us tried to up into the mob and got vulched etc, which isn't much fun. Went from another base but by that time they'd taken 129 and landed and probably went looking for another undefended base to go adfter.

Went to FT to have at it and had a ball in the old 38G target of mine cause I wanted to dogfight.

If you like base capture, go for it. If you like furballing, FT gives you the chance. And as most of us do, you have the opportunity for both on maps that have a FT. One doesn't have to interfere with the other. After a bit of mugging at FT I tend to want to find a fight away from it, but FT sharpens the SA and really makes you work at the ACM. Found myself in a rolling fight with Levi's Tempest on the deck and knew I was in trouble, but got to really work and actually hung with him for a few seconds. That just doesn't happen away from FT. Chances are the bad guy is going to rev to his mob and I'll get mugged

What I do hear you saying between the lines is you want guys to up at the bases you are taking so that the vulch can begin? Or are you looking for guys to go with you to cap/vulch the base while the bombers clobber the FH and VH so the map can get 'won"?

- Guppy35



 You see, the above statement by Guppy is a prime example.

 For one thing, a 'vulch' should be something very hard to obtain in the first place. Achieving a vulch is either a result of spectacular planning that catches a certain side totally off-guard, or a result of a turbulent power struggle to obtain total air superiority.

 The reality is very much different in the MA. Rarely does a vulch come from such hard work. The MA is stock full of the "vulch or be vulched" mentality. When a certain side starts to gain an advantage in local air superiority, people just tend to give up the fight and go elsewhere, and join another part of the map where the friendlies are winning. It's the same thing for all three countries, and the result we get is the three separate hordes for each country, each hitting empty enemy fields. You want a vulch? Just follow the horde. You want to be vulched? Defy the horde and actually try to defend a losing front.

 Obtaining a base should be the result of hard effort in the air - not something determined so easily by the size of the locust herd gathered in one spot.
 
 However, the MA is basically a happy-go-lucky place where everyone ups anywhere he chooses and does whatever he wants. It's not hard to imagine why - IIRC AH started out like that. A handful of experienced developers going independant to create their own combat flight sim. They first model the planes, and then create a room for people to fly and fight with them. It was all fine and dandy when there were only 100 people in the MA, all of them 'vets' friends to each other, even friends with the developers Pyro and HT. They liked flying and fighting itself, so the 'strat' aspect of the game was always nothing more than a small sideshow feature to add some spice to the A2A fight.

 It wouldn't be too far off to say that HTC basically made a room for a bunch of kids, and threw some toys in the room and let them play whatever they wanted to play. That's basically the MA - raw and unchanged, unstructured, and empty play room.

 The problem is, that's the past, and this is the present. Like it or not AH has grown into THE combat flight sim game of the world, bustling with some 500 people every day. Not all of these people share the same sentiment as the old vets, and the numbers of people wanting to experience some kind of 'WW2-ish war and combat' grows everyday. These people don't just come to find a fight - they want to fight it like how WW2 was fighted, in the land, sea, and air.

 However, the MA remains stagnant, unchanging. It's still the empty play room it was. The limitations are clear for individual players to create some kind of voluntary structure inside the game. You can't change the MA with voluntary work alone - the system itself must better accomodate a more advanced concept of strat. But as it is, there's no such thing in the MA up to date. Therefore, the kind of fight people crave for are now near extinction. The only thing exists is the horde, and thus people ask a sanctuary from the horde, like a national park would protect some endangered species.

 ...

 The point is, you shouldn't have to create a "Fighter Town" and go there to find a fight. The fight should be always everywhere - all the pilots at each of the fronts and airfields, should be trying to obtain local air superiority to gain freedom of operations to ultimately advance in territory. It is because the MA strat system is non-existant at best, that it cannot ensure such a fight happens, that people need the Fighter Town.

 I'm not saying a FT or a TT is fun.

 I'm saying the game has problems which should be fixed, so there needn't be a FT or a TT in the first place.


 The grand irony of this is the furball-lovin' "old vets" who complain about the MA horde game play, and praise the Fighter Town and Tank Town and individual combat, are also the same guys who oppose any kind of proposed changes to the game that might fundamentally solve such problems and actually give them what they want. Despite it is the stagnance of the game that brings out such problems, for some reason the 'old vets' fail to see it. They just want to play AH as it has always been played - no matter how much reality has been changed around them.

 In the end, I'm kinda guessing that one day those 'old-vet' attitude will ultimately be the death of AH, sorta like the guys who stay on a sinking ship. Instead of actually ttying to figure out where the ship is leaking, they just sit there and argue that if everyone does what they've been doing, everything will be alright.

 A wet dream?

 At least I dream about spmething that should come, instead of endlessly dreaming about "the goold ol' days."

 Hello, Earth to vets.

 The good ol' days are over. It ain't coming back.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 01:12:37 PM by Kweassa »

Offline Guppy35

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« Reply #66 on: August 01, 2006, 02:29:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MOIL
This is one thing that has always made me laugh, "Went from another base but by that time they'd taken 129 and landed and probably went looking for another undefended base to go adfter.
Like I would want to attack and attempt to take a heavily defended base? That doesn't make much sense now does it:huh



It makes little sense if you want quick base capture against no opposition.  Clearly your goal in the game is conquest of the land.  So be it if that's what you enjoy.  Not all of us do.

It does make sense if you are looking for conquest in the air.  Those of us looking for air to air, look at  the map and hope to find a dar bar that is a decent size and even with the friendly planes so the potential is there for a decent fight, not a vulchathon.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #67 on: August 01, 2006, 02:29:34 PM »
kwease... I understand what you say... I realize that there are 500 on instead of 40 or so and that they are all getting the game on the cheap and have other games of other types to play... they may or may not want to get good at killing in air combat...

I realize that there are no more personalities that the new guys can focus on and immulate or even... hate... it is all one big horde.   the only way to get any success is to get good in a game with a monstrous learning curve or...

horde warrior... hide in the horde... tell yourself that being a part of the ant colony is what it is really all about and that you don't really care if you are any good or not... that it doesn't matter or.... worse yet... that horde is skill.

you are correct that we shouldn't have to have a FT....fights should happen everywhere.   I am having trouble understanding what changes... given the situation and people that are now attracted to the game.... what changes could be made to make it as you say.. a place to find a fight allmost anywhere..

The only fights happen at the closer fields and at the glass bulb fragile CV's...  And then... only until the horde warriors and mouse weilders show up... people having fun fighting enrage them or.... embarass them or... bring out the griefer in em... whatever...  

We can't get a map maker to make a decent map so....

We need the FT area.

for those who say... that their gameplay is just as legitimate as any other.... sure it is.... cept you will realize a year from now that it really isn't and you just.... won't be around.   because you never bothered to learn how to fight.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

Offline Guyver

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« Reply #68 on: August 01, 2006, 02:55:27 PM »
do we get anything for winning a map? if not there should be something as an insentive to win. then ppl may try to take bases instread of staying in FT ect. if there is a bonus of some kind for takeing the mose bases and winning then i think more ppl would be inclined to fight the war and get map superiority
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Offline Lusche

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« Reply #69 on: August 01, 2006, 02:59:14 PM »
you get 25 perk points for being on the "winning" side for at least 6h (?) at time of reset
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Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #70 on: August 01, 2006, 03:00:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Guyver
do we get anything for winning a map?




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Offline Guppy35

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« Reply #71 on: August 01, 2006, 03:16:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Guyver
do we get anything for winning a map?


Yep, you get to start over on another map and do it all over again.
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Offline Guyver

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« Reply #72 on: August 01, 2006, 05:17:01 PM »
in that case maybe if there was something worth fighting for ppl would try and take bases and win maps. i dont care. i like FT. lol gives me chance to practice dogfighting. plus there are loads of ppl there to watch each others back and help. i think its fun.
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Offline Edbert1

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« Reply #73 on: August 01, 2006, 06:09:36 PM »
Hmmmm...what is there worth fighting for...nothing I guess. The bases are not real, nobody dies, there's no beer in the officer's club, the sheep are...nevermind. Your question might be better phrased to ask "what is there worth defending?".

See, defending a base against a determined attacker is nearly impossible. In our current MA all you have to do is resist for a while and most attacks will disperse and find an undefended base to attack (that is the way of most hordlings). But again, what is the reward in defending? There is no bounty of 25 perkies for those who get horded into a corner, so why try, why get your arse vulched for no payoff?


To answer your question though...IMO of course...
The thing worth fighting for is the fight itself, nothing more to it than that.

Offline Kwan

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« Reply #74 on: August 01, 2006, 07:26:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert1
To answer your question though...IMO of course...
The thing worth fighting for is the fight itself, nothing more to it than that.



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