Author Topic: Flight restrictions in UK and elsewhere  (Read 1962 times)

Offline Sparks

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Flight restrictions in UK and elsewhere
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2006, 06:44:12 PM »
I fly a lot and personally I think these measures are way overboard.

If the key threat is liquid explosive then simply ban liquids in all baggage and only allow on board beverages bought from vending machines at the gate.
We currently X-ray bags and use dogs for solid explosives the new threat is liquid.  The banning of electronic devices is to stop detonators, but with no explosive then the detonator is pointless so why bother ?
Ban all liquids other than from a controlled source and scan for solids as we did before.

The other problem is we are only plugging the threat at one end. You can consider the commercial avaition system as a sealed system with entry at any point giving you access to the whole system.  Hence if someone gets on a plane in, say, Greece where security is less than 100%, with a transfer in London to go to the US on a non-US airline then, as they won't be screened in London for the transfer (they are already in the system), all the screening at London departures won't stop them getting explosives on the plane.  The system is only being made more secure at one end and hence is no more secure.

This is why US airlines are re-screening ALL passengers at the gate because they don't know where they came from. It is also why ALL passengers doing international transfer through the US have to collect their bags and re-do security.

Examples:-
I recently did 3 trips to Buenes Aires from Santiago. A work tool, which was basically an 8" peice of steel with a shaped flat blade end, had slipped out of it's case into the bottom of my laptop bag during the previous days and I went through security at Santiago 3 times with this without knowing and it never got picked up - and example of piss poor screening.

Now consider I flew home from Chile via the US. Leg 1 landed at Dallas where we collected all our bags, went through customs and immigration and re-did security. One of my hold bags was opened and searched. Leg 2 was on to Boston and then back to Heathrow. The US have created a sealed system within the system.  The alternative route would have been Chile to Spain (Madrid) and on to Heathrow. In that scenario I would not have been rechecked in Madrid. IF I had then had another transfer say to New York then I could have simply transfered to the next flight unchecked.

The aviation system is only as secure as the weakest link in the system.

After the measures introduced here in UK the Eurostar train pax count went up 10%. My bet is it's people going to Paris or Brussels to catch trans- Atlantic flights from there.

I carry two pieces on usually - my laptop which is my key work tool, and my cameras;  both of these I cannot afford to lose. All this is doing is making life difficult and moving the terrorists point of entry.

Offline Toad

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Flight restrictions in UK and elsewhere
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2006, 06:46:44 PM »
Yep, Sparks, you're right.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline BGBMAW

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Flight restrictions in UK and elsewhere
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2006, 08:27:09 PM »
pigs on every flight


...cant you just wear bladders on your body?  

why didnt they do this earlier?  it happend over 10 years ago by those North Koreans freaks


Also ..I thought if it was so bad..that they would light forest fires all over...hasnt happened

Offline vorticon

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Flight restrictions in UK and elsewhere
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2006, 08:59:01 PM »
so, what do we do when they drop a suitcase of explosives onto a passing train?

Offline ramzey

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« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2006, 11:08:27 PM »
ban suitcases of corse

Offline jigsaw

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« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2006, 12:07:45 AM »
Per a phone conversation with AA last night, the only thing that's changed on domistic flights is the liquid/gel thing.  Of course, this is subject to change on a moments notice.

The TSA is a joke. It was a smokescreen by the idiot Bush which was extremely poorly planned and executed.  For the few people out there that will get just how poorly it was tossed out,  picture being a pilot (doesn't matter if you're a PPL or ATP) and having one of those unskilled, unschooled minimum wage twits walking up to you and saying "Hand over your pilot's license." Do not pass go, no questions asked.  At first you couldn't even appeal it. Now at least you can, but you'd still be without your license during the process.

Soon as I win the big lottery I'm picking up either a PC-12 or King Air and the TSA can kiss my shiney metal hiney.

Offline rogerdee

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Flight restrictions in UK and elsewhere
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2006, 05:31:33 AM »
the liquid bomb threat is not new.

it was used before  but th plane survived  the explosion  because some unlucky guy was sitting  on the seat where the bomb was  and took the full force of the explosion,also the seat he was in was not in its usual configeration  so was not in a critical place of the plane where it useualy was.


  thia threat  has been know about  for a long time.
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Offline takeda

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Flight restrictions in UK and elsewhere
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2006, 06:29:24 AM »
I forsee mandatory anesthesia for all passengers very soon. No one makes any trouble, and they can even cram more people on the plane that way. Win!

Offline vorticon

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« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2006, 12:46:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by takeda
I forsee mandatory anesthesia for all passengers very soon. No one makes any trouble, and they can even cram more people on the plane that way. Win!


frankly, i'd prefer that to sitting in between 2 guys of the bouncer variety for 3 hours.

Offline Khyron

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Flight restrictions in UK and elsewhere
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2006, 06:55:18 PM »
The funny twist is that I've read someone on another board that said he'd think twice before taking a flight if he saw someone clutching a bottle of water like it was gold.  The thing is that bottle of waters are rapidly becoming like gold when they start denying you drinks on board unless you're willing to fork over what amounts to more than a fair amount of profit to buy a drink.  The prices they want for food and water just seems like they're gouging to me.  Heck, an American Airlines stewardess even had the gall to tell me to go fly first class next time if I wanted some water.  Seems things will just get worse for no real difference to the terrorists.

However, to be more on subject wrt this thread -- I find it silly that if you have a baby, you can fly with liquids, if the determination is that liquids is a source of evil on flights.  These people are willing to throw away their lives, what's the big deal about finding/making a baby and lugging it about to facilitate liquid transport rights.  Seems like that would also be an easily sacrificed item in these people's mind.

Offline Momus--

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« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2006, 03:28:23 AM »
The restriction on hand luggage is being lifted today/tomorrow depending on the airport.

Link

Offline Pooh21

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« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2006, 04:48:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Khyron
The funny twist is that I've read someone on another board that said he'd think twice before taking a flight if he saw someone clutching a bottle of water like it was gold.  The thing is that bottle of waters are rapidly becoming like gold when they start denying you drinks on board unless you're willing to fork over what amounts to more than a fair amount of profit to buy a drink.  The prices they want for food and water just seems like they're gouging to me.  Heck, an American Airlines stewardess even had the gall to tell me to go fly first class next time if I wanted some water.  Seems things will just get worse for no real difference to the terrorists.

However, to be more on subject wrt this thread -- I find it silly that if you have a baby, you can fly with liquids, if the determination is that liquids is a source of evil on flights.  These people are willing to throw away their lives, what's the big deal about finding/making a baby and lugging it about to facilitate liquid transport rights.  Seems like that would also be an easily sacrificed item in these people's mind.

Thats why I say make the baby drink a fair sized portion of the formula. An adult could concievably choke liquid explosives down. But the baby would show right away something is up, either by spitting it all back up. Or going belly up and buying the farm soon after and recieving his 72 virgins.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2006, 09:18:42 AM »
mav... freedoms?  I don't believe I mentioned freedoms being lost but... I think that being searched without cause and asked to take off my shoes is a lost freedom.

It is mostly that airports are so inconvienient that I don't use em anymore..  Now we are simply talking about making them even more inconvienient.

The terrorists have won so far as I am concerned... It is too inconvienient and too oppressive an atmosphere at airports for me.... just seeing passengers being searched gives me the creeps.

lazs

Offline Suave

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« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2006, 10:36:26 AM »
Luggage is a pain in the ass. Unless I'm bringing camping gear, my carry on bag is all that I ever bring.

I can live with liquids being banned. But banning mp3 players cameras and phones is going to make traveling by air suck so much more. Because it means luggage check, luggage wait, luggage lost.

Offline lukster

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« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2006, 10:53:38 AM »
Without preventing these attacks here's how I see it going down over time. Plane bombings, shopping mall bombings, school bombings proliferate. Americans get fed up and start killing muslims in America. Muslims fight back, civil war ensues. What are the possible outcomes?