Author Topic: Flight restrictions in UK and elsewhere  (Read 2001 times)

Offline Maverick

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Flight restrictions in UK and elsewhere
« Reply #90 on: August 14, 2006, 04:11:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Maverick, like I said, I would trust people like CAV to use good judgement.  

The difference between you and me is that I do not think that central management from big government can produce one size fits all solutions.  Instead of trying to micromanage the whole situation, give security the staffing they need to be confident and let them do what they're hired to do.


Ok here,

I don't think that I am making myself clear. What I am asking for is what would YOUR vision of airport security be here. What kind of system would you devise to stop terrorists from downing rather expensive planes and losing passengers? How would it differ from what is currently going on?

What you posted above is a nice collection of words but they are rather lacking in substance.
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Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #91 on: August 14, 2006, 04:14:39 PM »
With respect, I've already outlined my system.  I suspect that you don't grok it because I'm not advocating some technical or large scale change.  In fact, that's true, I think that the big changes that the government folks keep trying to push downstream are a mistake.

DON'T:
Ban liquids
Ban nail cutters
etc

DO:
Let the security folks use their best judgement

That's RIGHT, I'm advocating doing LESS.  

That's what I've said over and over and over and over, it is my hope that my use of capitalization will make it clear enough this time.
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Offline Sandman

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« Reply #92 on: August 14, 2006, 04:22:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy

DO:
Let the security folks use their best judgement


Racial profiling?
sand

Offline RedTop

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« Reply #93 on: August 14, 2006, 04:30:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Racial profiling?


Interesting you said that.

I can't think of the last time a white male 19- to say oh 30 hijacked and blew up a plane. Or , ran them into buildings for that matter. At least not in the US. I'll google tho and see if I can find some.
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Offline CAV

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« Reply #94 on: August 14, 2006, 04:31:52 PM »
Quote
If you don't like it, find another job.    You don't have to like your job, and we don't have to like you for doing it.



The thing is I do like my job. Before this I was in the Army 22yrs and loved that one too.

As for the 2nd part.... The best TSA screeners do care if you like us or not, we have a job to do. If may not be the best system, but we have to play by the rules we are given.

Beside one the best parts of the job is walking some "nut job" 1st class flyer back to the doors of the airport.

And say...

"The bus station is down town.... Have a nice day.

CAVALRY
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Offline RedTop

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« Reply #95 on: August 14, 2006, 04:32:52 PM »
Originally posted by AquaShrimp
I think some people get confused about air travel, or any form of travel for that matter. Its a privilege, not a right.


Is this not a true statement?
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Offline Sandman

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« Reply #96 on: August 14, 2006, 04:37:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by CAV
The thing is I do like my job. Before this I was in the Army 22yrs and loved that one too.

As for the 2nd part.... The best TSA screeners do care if you like us or not, we have a job to do. If may not be the best system, but we have to play by the rules we are given.

Beside one the best parts of the job is walking some "nut job" 1st class flyer back to the doors of the airport.

And say...

"The bus station is down town.... Have a nice day.

CAVALRY


I should apologize Cav. My frustration should not be directed at you personally.
sand

Offline jigsaw

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Flight restrictions in UK and elsewhere
« Reply #97 on: August 14, 2006, 04:46:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by RedTop
Interesting you said that.

I can't think of the last time a white male 19- to say oh 30 hijacked and blew up a plane. Or , ran them into buildings for that matter. At least not in the US. I'll google tho and see if I can find some.



Short memory?

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/01/06/tampa.crash/index.html

I'll give you a little slack since he came in under the age parameters you set.

Offline RedTop

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« Reply #98 on: August 14, 2006, 04:53:18 PM »
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Originally posted by jigsaw
Short memory?

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/01/06/tampa.crash/index.html

I'll give you a little slack since he came in under the age parameters you set.


Hmm...well not really what I was looking for...but I'll give ya that one.
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Offline Suave

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« Reply #99 on: August 14, 2006, 05:57:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by RedTop
Originally posted by AquaShrimp
I think some people get confused about air travel, or any form of travel for that matter. Its a privilege, not a right.


Is this not a true statement?


Of course it's not a true statement. Imprisonment is the lack of the right to travel.

Offline bj229r

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« Reply #100 on: August 14, 2006, 07:36:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
With respect, I've already outlined my system.  I suspect that you don't grok it because I'm not advocating some technical or large scale change.  In fact, that's true, I think that the big changes that the government folks keep trying to push downstream are a mistake.

DON'T:
Ban liquids
Ban nail cutters
etc

DO:
Let the security folks use their best judgement

That's RIGHT, I'm advocating doing LESS.  

That's what I've said over and over and over and over, it is my hope that my use of capitalization will make it clear enough this time.


Ok...what would be the odds of detecting THIS:

Quote
Qaeda's latest weapon is 'mother and child' suicide bombers
London, Aug 14: Authorities in Britain are now searching for mother and babies in their war against terror.

Officials said baby boomers were among those arrested over the plot to massacre thousands of passengers mid-air on board transatlantic flights originating from Heathrow, late last week.

Among the persons under the scanner were a husband and wife with six-month-old infant.

Officials said they now feared that fanatical mothers ready to sacrifice themselves along with their infants had joined secret al Qaeda cells in Britain.


http://www.newkerala.com/news4.php?action=fullnews&id=6877
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Offline RedTop

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« Reply #101 on: August 14, 2006, 07:39:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Suave
Of course it's not a true statement. Imprisonment is the lack of the right to travel.


What?
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Offline ramzey

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« Reply #102 on: August 14, 2006, 09:15:43 PM »
Just wondering, tampoons and other girly stuff is banned from taking on board?

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #103 on: August 14, 2006, 09:32:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
With respect, I've already outlined my system.  I suspect that you don't grok it because I'm not advocating some technical or large scale change.  In fact, that's true, I think that the big changes that the government folks keep trying to push downstream are a mistake.

DON'T:
Ban liquids
Ban nail cutters
etc

DO:
Let the security folks use their best judgement

That's RIGHT, I'm advocating doing LESS.  

That's what I've said over and over and over and over, it is my hope that my use of capitalization will make it clear enough this time.


Ok here now we have something to discuss.

You want to allow liquids nail cutters etc. on the plane. Can you explain how that is going to help security here?

This statement: "Let the security folks use their best judgement" really is a null statement. If you were to give that statement to me as a TSA employee I'd be asking you exactly what you mean. "Best Judgement" about what? Am i supposed to decide whether to allow certian people to have certain items based on what? How they look? How they act? What object are subject "to my judgement"?

What I'm trying to explain is that there is no uniformity to your "system" and neither the passengers nor the security folks will have any reasonable expectation as to what to expect. It will be a crap shoot for the passenger as to what they can bring as carry on, checked baggage whatever. It will also vary from checker to checker much less air port to airport.

You are going to do less. OK here is the same kind of question I asked Sandy and he ignored. How many aircraft are you willing to lose before your comfort zone is compromised? If you are going to make the aircraft open to the terrorists, exactly who's freedom have you enhanced?
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Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #104 on: August 14, 2006, 09:45:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bj229r
Ok...what would be the odds of detecting THIS:
http://www.newkerala.com/news4.php?action=fullnews&id=6877
Maybe it wouldn't, maybe it would.  You know what else wouldn't?  Banning liquids.

By implementing super specific rules like this, you create the illusion of safety and turn off the interogative part of the brain in the TSA folks.
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