Why Islamists will win the war on drugs

[Mustaine]

vudak, hear what you want, I don't want to do drugs like that.



as you brought it up... please tell me how this "rehab" program will honestly work? there would be no legal way to make the addicts go into the program, and are you that naive to think they will volunteerly go into said program?

what about employers? what are the laws regarding hiring? they would be legal substances. a drug test may show you used crack 2 weeks ago. can they not hire you? i can drink off the job, and still get hired. where is the line drawn?




Lazs, no I think they are not addicts because they don't want to risk jail for using an illegal substance. I know many "casual" users who would jump to at least daily usage if the legality of it was not a question.

no I do not think booze is different... just like smoking. it is considered legal, but it is getting DARN close to being illegal, especially in your home state.

[soda72]

Originally posted by lazs2
mustaine.... you believe that there are twenty times more addicts out there right now than we have and that the only thing that keeps them from knowing it is......

They can't get drugs because of the extremely efficent war on drugs?

Do you also believe that booze is somehow different and that there is no crossover?  That people who would be addicts don't like booze maybe?  that they scorn legal drugs like booze but would go insane if drugs were suddenly cheap and available?

I say that people will try the drugs... the tradgedies will be right up front for all to see and the people smart enough to stay away from drugs now will stay away even more so when they are legal.

Everyone isn't a drunk.   Prohibition did not stop drunks from commiting crime... it caused crime.. it glamorized booze and probly led to more alcohol abuse than we have ever had.

besides... it is no ones business what another person does to his own body.

lazs

What drugs do you recommend being legalized?

Majiuna
heroin/opium
Meth
cocaine


If Majiuna is legalized would it be ok to smoke it in public places like bars, resturants etc?

[Mustaine]

Originally posted by soda72
What drugs do you recommend being legalized?

Majiuna
heroin/opium
Meth
cocaine


If Majiuna is legalized would it be ok to smoke it in public places like bars, resturants etc?

exactly.

there seems to be a consensus of they pro-drug people that all drugs be legal.

meth
coke
crack
crank
extasty
heroin
pcp
acid
mushrooms
pot

and any other thing you can ingest / smoke.

where is the line?

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by Mustaine
there seems to be a consensus of they pro-drug people that all drugs be legal.

The war on drugs may not have made cocaine legal, but(read my post above) it made it just about free

[Saintaw]

I saw nobody gutting anyone the last time I was in a Netherlands coffee shop. I must get new glasses...

[Nifty]

Originally posted by Saintaw
I saw nobody gutting anyone the last time I was in a Netherlands coffee shop. I must get new glasses...

You weren't mugged or carjacked because someone couldn't afford the goods at the coffee shop?  Don't lie. You know it causes crime!

[Mustaine]

another thing... lets compare this to smoking.

you say all the drugs are going to create these huge tax revenues. how much are you going to tax the stuff? look at cigarette tax. it is insane how much it is, yet the government is using the fact that supposedly that tax money is not enough to pay for the health problems smoking causes.

if that is the case how much are you going to have to tax crack to cover all the related costs? don;t forget about the person high on crack who you say:

the cost of sending just one of these "Crack potato homeless car jacker types" to jail for 20 years,

just 1.... you know how many arreses there would be with ALL the drugs being tested for for drivers "impared"

how long do you lock each of them up for? how do you prove there were under the infulence at that time? you can do coke and it would show up in your system a month later. there more tax money spent on detaining, testing, and convicting that junkie. car accidents... how long do they go away for then? more tax money.


back to cigarettes. I have never heard of someone needing a cigarette so bad they do anything to have it. the high is not there like say heroin. some junkie needs his fix, he is ALOT more desperate to get that high, and will act out much differently than someone just needing a cigarette.

you can almost subsitute booze in much of this, but i hope you are intelligent to see where I am going with this.

to support all this wonderous stuff you say would be there for the druggies, you would be taking it so high it may even be more expensive than today. then there would also be an underground contingent to get it cheaper than the taxed stuff. there's users you are not collecting money from yet still have to pay for all their actions.

[indy007]

Originally posted by Mustaine
where is the line? [/B]

In a truly free country, the line is determined by the individual, and not society. Only when the individual becomes a danger to society are laws neccessary to curb the behaviour.

Somebody getting hammered on vodka, nodding off after mainlining, getting baked out of their skull, in the safety of their own home, are no danger to you.

Now, the same situation as above... but If they start playing with guns, hop behind the wheel of a car, or create an unsafe atmosphere for their family, is illegal, as it should be.

By your own logic, alcohol should be banned. It's a very dangerous drug that causes thousands of deaths every year. However, judging by the location under your avatar, I'd imagine you'd be very upset it we told you that we know what's best for you, and you can't have beer anymore... ever.

[Mustaine]

Originally posted by Nifty
You weren't mugged or carjacked because someone couldn't afford the goods at the coffee shop?  Don't lie. You know it causes crime!

do you guys ever hear yourselves?



are you that dense that you compare the effects of caffine to that of cocaine or heroin? you truly believe that someone needing a caffine fix is in the same mental state as someone needing a crack fix?







if that is the rational of you people here I give up. you can't argue reason and logic with idjits.

[Sixpence]

I'm not talking making it legal, myself, I just question all this money being spent trying to stop it when all the war on drugs has done is flood the market and drop the price.

You know what kept me off off drugs? Education, I knew what hard drugs(including hard booze) did to the body, and to the mind. I made the decision not to do them, legal or not.

[Mustaine]

Originally posted by indy007
Only when the individual becomes a danger to society are laws neccessary to curb the behaviour.

ok drugs are legal.

now at the club there are hundreds legally shooting up. sharing needles, oh the needles are free? there's more tax on the product to pay for needles. so some share, and disease runs rampant from the sharing.

100's of joe homeboy smokes some crack, and trpis on acid on the street corner. they become irrational, paranoid, and run into the street causing accidents.

i can do this all day with examples, but i don't want to type that much.

Somebody getting hammered on vodka, nodding off after mainlining, getting baked out of their skull, in the safety of their own home, are no danger to you.

the reason they stay inside all doped up is it is illegal. if they are given carte blanche to do it in public, they are no longer using "in a safe and controled place".

[Mustaine]

Originally posted by Sixpence
I'm not talking making it legal, myself, I just question all this money being spent trying to stop it when all the war on drugs has done is flood the market and drop the price.

You know what kept me off off drugs? Education, I knew what hard drugs(including hard booze) did to the body, and to the mind. I made the decision not to do them, legal or not.

I understand your rational, and I truly believe that making them legal is not the answer.

as I said in one of my first posts that seems to be lost by some along the way:

Originally posted by Mustaine
i don't know if our system is right or wrong, but I do know that letting full blown crack heads run the streets blitzed out of their gourds is not safe for society as a whole.

[Charon]

back to cigarettes. I have never heard of someone needing a cigarette so bad they do anything to have it. the high is not there like say heroin. some junkie needs his fix, he is ALOT more desperate to get that high, and will act out much differently than someone just needing a cigarette.

Says you, and based on what exactly? Cigs are legal the last time I checked.

You mean like getting out of the oxygen tent when suffering from emphysema to light one up? Or still smoking after you’ve had a lung removed from cancer or a heart attack? Question for the smokers on the board. What would happen if they banned tobacco completely tomorrow and made it illegal? Would you be a criminal? What would happen if you happened to be out of a job at the time and somebody walked away from a table to use the john and left a pack of smokes sitting out? Could you see another smoker being even more drastic to feed the habit?

Let’s look at death statistics:
Tobacco: 435,000 (see #1)
Poor Diet and
 Physical Inactivity: 365,000 (see #1)
Alcohol: 85,000 (see #1)
Microbial Agents: 75,000 (see #1)
Toxic Agents: 55,000 (see #1)
Motor Vehicle Crashes: 26,347 (see #1)
Adverse Reactions
 To Prescription Drugs: 32,000 (see #2)
Suicide: 30,622 (see #3)
Incidents Involving Firearms: 29,000 (see #1)
Homicide: 20,308 (see #4)
Sexual Behaviors: 20,000 (see #1)
Illicit Use of Drugs: 17,000 (see #1 and #5)
Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin:   7,600 (see #6)
Marijuana:   0 (see #7)

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.txt

Oh my… BTW, In Amsterdam, they don’t just sell “coffee” at the coffee shop.

Do you have any basis in fact for your positions?

Charon

[Charon]

Where alcohol is concerend I've actually experienced somebody drinking himself to death. Blackouts (and not the type you have with a bender) convulsions, DTs... the works. They guy knew he was killing himself too. Didn't have the authority to do more than plead for him to stop. Not pretty.

So why have alcohol legal? Maybe, because the majority of responsible drinkers want to enjoy THEIR drug fun, and they have the numbers to make it happen.

Charon

[indy007]

Originally posted by Mustaine
i can do this all day with examples, but i don't want to type that much.

I think you're missing a big point.

Currently, alcohol is legal, with limitations. It's proven to be a very dangerous substance. It causes death, shattered families, etc, etc. People have committed violent crime under the influence. People have committed violent crime to get money to spend on more alcohol.

Currently, crack is illegal. It's proven to be a very dangerous substance. It causes death, shattered families, etc, etc. People have committed violent crime under the influence. People have committed violent crime to get money to spend on more crack.

You say, that if crack were illegal, crackheads would terrorize society. I'll point out that alcohol is legal, and alcoholics do terrorize society. It's the price you pay for being in a free society. When the people terrorize society, their actions are illegal.

Sending people to jail because of their choice of poison, before they've endangered society in any manner, is bull****.