Ki-84 Usage (or Lack Thereof)

[Krusty]

P.S. The AH Ki84 maxes out at about 384, NOT 398.

It's relatively fast on the deck, but it doesn't gain as much by going up in alt as most other planes do.

Benny, I also ask: "Do you even FLY this game??"

Viking: Sure, the Japanese might have done that, but they had no choice. The Soviets HAD a choice, and they executed, imprisoned, or sent to concentration camps (death sentence) all of *THEIR* designers. It's not a fair comparison. One killed theirs on the front, the other killed theirs at home out of paranoia. (Stalin was insane)

[tedrbr]

Dok's site has some fairly good comparison charts.  Not sure how accurate from the last version change or two, but a good resource to get an rough idea on plane comparisons.  Pilot skills need to be considered as well.

http://www.gonzoville.com/charts/

Ki-84 compares close to the Niki, Spit 8 and Spit-16.  Spits can outclimb in on WEP.  Spits can also get their flaps out in turns long before a Ki-84 can, IIRC.  Splitxeen has better gun package.... Niki doubly so if you luv cannons.

Ki-84 has much better range than the Spits do, so if the fight is further away, that can help.

And there is something to be said about flying a plane that everybloodybody else doesn't.

[Viking]

Originally posted by Krusty
Sure, the Japanese might have done that, but they had no choice.

That’s not true, they had the same choice the Germans had.

The bombing of Japan’s industry started on June 15, 1944, after production had started on the Ki-84. Still due to lack of skilled labour the production quality was horrible.

At the same time the Germans, having retained their scientists and skilled workers, had been bombed almost continuously day and night for two years. And they were making this:



And they made it out in the woods, practically from garbage.


If the Japanese had made the same choice as Germany, they could have had jet fighters at the same time perhaps ever earlier. The Japanese pilots could have flown planes that equalled their adversaries in ’43, and Japanese jet fighters appearing just as the American bombing campaign starts? It would have had a huge impact on the war.

[Kweassa]

Sympathy? ... Sure, but it was still idiocy. The Japanese send their best minds to be killed at the front long before the war was hopelessly lost. Even when the Russians stood at the gates of Berlin the Germans didn't send their scientists and engineers to fight (though some of them did so voluntarily).

 Again, I must emphasize the difference of culture. Living longer than three thousands of years with people of same ethnicity at the same areas of the world is bound to have some effect on the mindset of many people - notably of the tree North-Eastern Asian countries of China, Korea, and Japan. Ofcourse, things have changed during the past few decades and the speed of globalization has 'softened up' the edges quite a bit, but still there are certain types of thinking that just doesn't go away.

 Ofcourse a certain civilian section will probably be maintained to ensure the war machine keeps on going, but what if the tide of the battle has been turned decisively, and such efforts will not be able to stop imminent defeat? Naturally, everyone, every human resource will be put into the defense of the homeland, in whatever way they can. It's how people are brought up around these parts - it's just different.

 It may seem hard to understand, most probably awkward, perhaps even 'idiotic' as you might say, but not our eyes who live here in Eastern end of the Asian continent. Ofcourse things have changed a lot since last 60 years, and if modern day warfare ever breaks out things would be a lot different. However, in regards to the Japanese of 1945, I don't find it too difficult to understand what they felt and how they felt it.

P.S. The AH Ki84 maxes out at about 384, NOT 398.

 You're right. WW's test results are;

Speed on deck, no WEP: 327 mph
Speed on deck with WEP: 348 mph
Speed at 22,500 ft without WEP: 382 mph
Speed at 22,500 ft with WEP: 388 mph

 Must have confused 398 with 388.

[Viking]

Kweassa, they still had a choice. You're just explaining why they made the wrong one. Or in less polite terms ... were idiots.

[evenhaim]

dude u must crazy yest alone in one sortie i saw at least 15 ki84s and on antoher sprtie we were defending a base from a raid half of which were ki84s, i havnt gone a day without seeing quite a few

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Viking
Kweassa, they still had a choice. You're just explaining why they made the wrong one. Or in less polite terms ... were idiots.

They didn't send their engineers to the front lines.  Jiro Horikoshi, and others like him, stayed and designed aircraft.

What they did do was send their skilled machinists and metal workers to the front line.

Why?  Because their warrior tradition emphasized the value of the warrior to an extreme.

And yes, it was a dumb thing to do.

[Whisky58]

Originally posted by EagleDNY
Agree here totally - on autotrim, the Ki-84 will get beaten a lot by the Nikis, Spixteens, & La-Las, which is probably why it isn't flown by a lot of newbies.
When you take the autotrim off her, she can be a bit of a handful at low speed if you don't work those flaps just right.  Once you get her quirks down (and start to use them to your advantage), the Ki-84 really shines.  

EagleDNY
$.02

Goes without saying that working the trim & working the flaps are different.  Eagle, do you have to make a lot of trim adjusments in the Ki84 when low and slow?  I struggle just changing flap settings.  In a dogfight taking my eye off the ball to fiddle around with trim on the keyboard usually results in death pretty dam quick.

Regards.

[EagleDNY]

Originally posted by Whisky58
Goes without saying that working the trim & working the flaps are different.  Eagle, do you have to make a lot of trim adjusments in the Ki84 when low and slow?  I struggle just changing flap settings.  In a dogfight taking my eye off the ball to fiddle around with trim on the keyboard usually results in death pretty dam quick.

Regards.

I can't usually work the flaps and the trim and fight at the same time.  If I'm stuck in a too high-speed dive (which can happen in a Ki-84) I'll trim her out of it, but I don't usually fool with the trim while at low speed.  The flaps on the Ki are pretty amazing, when low and very slow with those flaps out, you can do some amazingly tight turns.  The big problem is that you have to be REALLY slow to get them out.  

In a fight, I'll stick the the flaps and keep my eye on the target.  I'm with you that losing sight of your opponent is usually the step immediately preceding a flaming, spiraling death.

EagleDNY
$.02

[tedrbr]

I usually just keep resetting combat trim in any plane, including Ki-84.  My X52 is set up to do trim on the fly, and without actually being there to "feel" the input and results in reality, I don't think I could do a good job of it in a sim in fighters.  Mostly I just have it set up for pinpoint bombing and dealing with battle damage.

Very rarely I get slow enough to deploy flaps in a Ki-84, but you are right, it can make some very interesting moved when they are out.

[Krusty]

They come out about 165 or so. I think the autoclimb speed is just about the max speed you can drop them.

If you're not getting slow enough to release the flaps, then you haven't really lived in a Ki84 yet! When you start a turnfight back off the throttle (if you can) until you bleed your speed down to 150 or so, then pop some flaps, go a little nose-high, and see the magic begin

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Krusty
They come out about 165 or so. I think the autoclimb speed is just about the max speed you can drop them.

If you're not getting slow enough to release the flaps, then you haven't really lived in a Ki84 yet! When you start a turnfight back off the throttle (if you can) until you bleed your speed down to 150 or so, then pop some flaps, go a little nose-high, and see the magic begin

Yup.  Take the opportunity to make an up-verticle turn, even.  The Frank, so far as I'm concerned, is the best non-Spit dogfighting plane in the game, and with a competent pilot (I've seen some of them in action) is about even with the best of the Spits.  Others are right, though, you have to turn the auto-trim off just before your fight begins (it's worth dedicating a button to this), keep the fight close, and practice with the plane a bit before it really comes into its own.

- oldman

[Grits]

The Ki84 is my favorite ride, and I dont fear any plane when I am in it. I also NEVER use manual trim and the plane flies just fine for me. I used to use manual trim, but stopped and I did just as well as with it.

The best traits of the Ki84 are its great super-slow speed (under 100mph) stability, very high roll rate at said super slow speeds, very quick WEP recovery, and the ability to get its nose high in a spiral climb from nearly any speed the plane can still fly.

Why dont more fly it? Because they are sheep.

[Kweassa]

Sometimes, questions like these don't need complicated answers... it's just simply most people too suck to ever appreciate a plane other than a La-7 or a Spit16. Their lazy, impotent brains dictates them to succumb to the need for a non-thinking, non-acting, non-challenging, point-and-click-hizooka plane.

 I mean, the Ki-84's very good, but you still gotta learn it to fly it. So why spend any time learning its quirks and personalities, when you can go take a Spit16 and do whatever the Ki-84 can do without trying too hard?

 Like the man said, they're sheep. That's all they will ever be.

[Viking]

That was rather harsh  Kweassa, and uncalled for.