Author Topic: 19,000 votes thrown out in 2000, 14,000 thrown out in 1996  (Read 635 times)

Offline CavemanJ

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19,000 votes thrown out in 2000, 14,000 thrown out in 1996
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2000, 08:43:00 PM »
Nate I think that sums up this whole mess pretty succinctly.  

Nash the bold part is the precedent rip was talking about when he started the thread with this.  That part is the reasoning as to why the appeals court overturned the trial court's decision, and denied the revote.

Offline wrench

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19,000 votes thrown out in 2000, 14,000 thrown out in 1996
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2000, 08:56:00 PM »
banana, seems we listen to the same radio station, you failed to mention how they led the story. Seems the State of Florida says the ballot was 100% legal. I won't bother to search for and post the statement they aired today on Talk of the Nation...lawyers will decide for us, good luck to you. I listen to many news sources, I am intelligent enough to know liberal garbage when I hear it though  

The point has been made that the ballots are anonymous, there is no way to decide this without holding another election and we are not going to do that.

Once again it is about personal responsiblity. I was responsible for my vote and so were residents of Palm Beach. Once again we need to bend the rules or allow an unknown number of recounts because someone else just isn't responsible for what they did...how many recounts in the state do we need? I know, just until Al Gore wins.

Didn't they do this in Yugoslavia recently? Lose and then start calling for a RE VOTE!!!

DO OVER! DO OVER!! We weren't ready!!! Man this aint fair!! WE LOST? BULL YOU CHEATED. YOUR PARTY MADE THAT BALLOT HARD TO READ!!  My pary made it? OK, I made a mistake, can't I get a do over? Who reads the instructions anyway. I didn't know it would matter...I could go on all night  

Wrench
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Offline Eagler

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19,000 votes thrown out in 2000, 14,000 thrown out in 1996
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2000, 11:47:00 PM »
Heard tonite that Duval County (Jacksonville) threw out 22,000 ballots and no recount there. These are damaged/errored ballots which were recast before the voter left the poll so they are counted. The media/democrats have spun the 19k votes in Palm Beach to sound as if they were never counted. This is not true.

Eagler

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Offline Nash

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19,000 votes thrown out in 2000, 14,000 thrown out in 1996
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2000, 06:07:00 AM »
The '96 14,000 figure Rip alludes to has no real relationship to the 19,000 figue this year. Compared on the same basis, it is actually closer to 7,000.

[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 11-12-2000).]

Offline CavemanJ

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19,000 votes thrown out in 2000, 14,000 thrown out in 1996
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2000, 09:50:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Nash:
The '96 14,000 figure Rip alludes to has no real relationship to the 19,000 figue this year. Compared on the same basis, it is actually closer to 7,000.

[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 11-12-2000).]

I'm just wondering where this particular tidbit came from....

This year ~4% were tossed out, '96 ~4% were tossed out.


Offline Nash

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19,000 votes thrown out in 2000, 14,000 thrown out in 1996
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2000, 01:44:00 PM »
Well, I should fess up and say that 7,000 is only an estimate. No one has an exact overvotes-vs.-undervotes breakdown from '96. The way one can extrapolate that number though,is as follows.

Well, the short answer is that the 14,000 number contains both over votes AND under votes votes. In this election, 19,000 ballots were due to over voting while an additional 10,000 ballots were discarded due to undervoting.

So looked at in the same light with the same standard, you get either 30,000 this year vs 14,000 in '96, or you get 19,000 this year vs approx 7,000 in '96. Either way, this years' discards were *double* what went on in the last election. NOT as close as 14,000 vs 19,000.

The long answer is this:

Punch-card ballots are most often discarded for two reasons: when voters select too many candidates per contest ("overvote") or no candidate at all ("undervote").

Overvoting counts for roughly one ballot per thousand, or .10 percent.

Undervoting occurs on a lengthy ballot when voters simply don't bother to fill in every category. Overvoting occurs when, for example, people think they have to mark their selection for both President *and* Vice President. Not very bright, I know, but there you have it. When ballots are "discarded" for either reason, they are done so only for that particular race. If someone overvotes for president, or doesn't vote at all, his or her legitimate vote for senator still counts.

Due to this, it is *very* unusual for discarded ballots to contain more overvotes than undervotes.

In this election, the much-talked about 19,000 disputed ballots in Palm Beach included overvotes only. An additional 10,000 ballots were put aside by county officials for undervoting, bringing the total to nearly 30,000 discarded ballots in all.

In the '96 election, the 14,000 Palm Beach County ballots that were voided in included *both overvoting and undervoting.* In other words, there were twice as many ballots voided this year in Palm Beach County.

Again, no one has an exact overvotes-vs.-undervotes breakdown from '96. But understanding that undervotes almost always outnumber overvotes, at most, half of those 14,000 ballots in '96 were undervotes.