The terrorists are winning

[Eagler]

Originally posted by moot
That quote of Galland, yes.. how does it have its place there, under that previous post of yours?

ah - because on is dealing with a2a combat and the other a countrys political system maybe?

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
I said nothing about a revolt.  We have it within our power to hold politicians accountable.  You start there.

Doing nothing will yeild nothing, but more of the same.  Quite frankly, I do not think our country can stand more of the same for any period of time.

I/we can't do anything until we are giving another choice.. Until then I will continue to vote the lesser of two evils which i perceive as the republicans

[Habu]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
You did not mention it Habu, but the structural design of the towers was such that in the event of any structural failure, the towers would collapse straight down.

This was done to eliminate the massive amount of potential damage/death if the towers fell over, as opposed to collapsing downward.

The towers did exactly what they were designed to do in the advent of a structural failure.

Exactly. And anyone who looks at windows popping out many floors below and then says "Ahhh Hahhh, see it was a timed explosion" forgets as well that big buildings have ducts and shafts going all over the place. A huge exposion on one floor will get carried thoughout the building and could pop windows on totally different floors. Jet fuel will flow down from the floors of impact as well. Smoke will travel though elevator shafts and so will heat and fire.

[moot]

Yes, I'm curious to know how it doesn't apply, specificaly.

Your interest is to have an alternative to two evils.
Said evils' interest is to survive your vote.
An alternative vote would kill them, therefore won't be their initiative, so.. how does voting to keep in office the very factor that guarantees the alternative vote you want will not happen, make sense?

You're feeding the animal you want dead.

[Eagler]

moot
I guess at a more universal level it could apply to both but that is not the intention of my sig.
I am not feeding what I want dead, maybe laz is but I am happier with the republicans than I am not and at present there isn't any other choice, the dems here are ridiculous, border line socialist, the worse of two evils by a huge margin imo. as they vote party line 99% of the time, in Nov I will vote straight "R" as I have always done to keep their scary arses out of office.

[ghi]

Originally posted by Habu
I see it every day. In this forum, on other forums, in the media and even among people I know. There are many who believe that they US or Israel were behind the 9-11 attacks. And these people actually believe this to be true.

.

   I don't belive in US, Israel conspiracy,, but i'm not 100% convinced by oficial explanation of what happened

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBjTVQHJ1DA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeZAN5wn-eA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zk2pUGni_c

[Elfie]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
You did not mention it Habu, but the structural design of the towers was such that in the event of any structural failure, the towers would collapse straight down.

This was done to eliminate the massive amount of potential damage/death if the towers fell over, as opposed to collapsing downward.

The towers did exactly what they were designed to do in the advent of a structural failure.

IIRC, the towers were also designed to withstand direct hits from jets up to the size of a 727, but the towers were hit by 767's.

It's good to see you playing in the Sandbox Skuzzy

[moot]

Ghi - specificaly?

[Skuzzy]

Originally posted by Habu
Exactly. And anyone who looks at windows popping out many floors below and then says "Ahhh Hahhh, see it was a timed explosion" forgets as well that big buildings have ducts and shafts going all over the place. A huge exposion on one floor will get carried thoughout the building and could pop windows on totally different floors. Jet fuel will flow down from the floors of impact as well. Smoke will travel though elevator shafts and so will heat and fire.

Not just the pressure from the explosion, but as each floor collapsed on top of the other it sent a massive surge of air pressure through the structure causing the windows to blow out long before the collapse of that floor.
The structural engineer who designed the towers said they did exactly what they were designed to do.  Pretty impressive engineering from where I sit.

Can you imagine how much worse it could have been if the towers had fallen over?

But rest assured Habu, there will always be people who cannot understand how something like this could have been engineered to do what they did.  They will point and wag fingers at all manner of conspiracy theories.

Lemme see.  Who am I gonna believe?  The guy who actually designed the towers, or some numpty who has no clue how structural engineering works?  Hmmmm.  No brainer if you ask me.

I have had enough structural engineering schooling to understand why and how the towers did what they did.  And from where I sit, they reacted to the events in a manner consistent with thier design.

[Elfie]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
If we are willing to accept mediocrity, then that is exactly what we will get (or worse).

Having to settle for the lesser of any evils is not acceptable.  We do it because it is easier to do than the alternative.  Which would be to stand up in a unified voice and proclaim, "We are not going to take it anymore!  We will not accept medocrity!  We deserve the best this nation has to offer and you are not it!".

So given the options we are given (Democrats or Republicans) with no real, viable 3rd party alternative......what do you suggest?

[moot]

Make it happen ourselves, Elfie.

[Skuzzy]

Originally posted by Elfie
IIRC, the towers were also designed to withstand direct hits from jets up to the size of a 727, but the towers were hit by 767's.

It's good to see you playing in the Sandbox Skuzzy

It is one thing for a building to be designed to collapse in a specific manner and predict that event.

It is another ball game to predict exactly what it would take to cause sich a collapse.  Engineers can pin point precisely how much force and where it is needed to cause an event like this.  But saying the towers were designed to withstand an impact from something as specific as a particular airplane would not be done by a structural engineer.

 It might have been a comparative statement being made to allow non-engineers to grasp the amount of potential force required.

[Elfie]

Originally posted by moot
Make it happen ourselves, Elfie.

Without a viable 3rd party.....how?


Imo, as long as the electoral college exists, there will never be a 3rd party president.

[Elfie]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
It is one thing for a building to be designed to collapse in a specific manner and predict that event.

It is another ball game to predict exactly what it would take to cause sich a collapse.  Engineers can pin point precisely how much force and where it is needed to cause an event like this.  But saying the towers were designed to withstand an impact from something as specific as a particular airplane would not be done by a structural engineer.

 It might have been a comparative statement being made to allow non-engineers to grasp the amount of potential force required.

That makes sense Skuzzy. The thing with the 727 was something I read shortly after 9-11, but dont recall where. Could very easily have been some moron trolling. If so, he hooked one.

[Skuzzy]

Originally posted by Elfie
So given the options we are given (Deomcrats or Republicans) with no real, viable 3rd party alternative......what do you suggest?

We have a few options, short of a civil war, available.

Given the current major partis have made it all but impossible for a third party to ever have a chance at accomplishing anything, it falls on the people to force better choices within the constraints of the two parties.

Instead of simply accepting the mediocrity, we need to walk away from it.  If everyone in this country, or a substantial number, would commit to simply walking away from it.  It would force a change, eventually.

Now, to make it clear to the politicians we are serious, I would propose a central WEB site to be used for taking mock votes.  For instance, you list all the potential candidates, then you list others, and even allow write-ins.

Allow all the various politicians listed to post a blog, of sorts, on how they feel about the various concerns the people of this country have.  Putting it writting is a tool to be used later on when they put thier foot in thier mouth.

Advertise this page across the country.  A way to prevent people from abusing it would be needed.

Basically, you get the press onboard.  Once they are onboard, you will be surprised how fast the politicians will follow.

Just a thought.  Needs more fleshing out.