New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates

[Simaril]

Originally posted by WMLute
When HTC made the Sept. 13th changes, I was one of those shaking his fist screaming mad that HTC broke the community.  I posted in the Sticky two times; both were strongly against what was done.

I also posted away from the general public in the CM forum too.  I was not happy.  I did quite the rant.

Some time has passed, and to HTC credit, I "get" it now.  What HTC is trying to do here really has a chance to work. It has the potential to change AHII back into what many of the "old timers" call "the good ole' days".  I look at what HTC has done with the multi-arenas and see that he is shaping the game into something even better than what we had.  He really does know what he's talking about, and he's in a position to see the "big picture", whereas we aren't.  Have faith in him and what he is doing.

We, the community, need to try and help him out in this process.  Gone are the days of the 700 player masses in the MA.  They are gone.  Quit complaining.  That is the PAST.  Get over it.  Let's work on the here and now, and towards the future of this game.

I am putting out a request to the "leaders" in this game, and the community  (squad CO's, old timers, etc,etc...).  Or heck, the followers too I guess.

I would humbly ask that you do everything you can to help HTC with this new arena change.  And the only way to do this is by example.  

Sides imbalanced?  Change sides.  My squad has flown Knights for as long as I have played AH (5ish years now).  I have formed many positive relationships on the Knights.  The WidowMakers, at least if I have anything to say about it, will for the time being fly on whatever sides has the least players on it.  (Yes, even Bishop [the horror... the horror....])

Now, I can't force my squad to change sides to help balance out the arena.  Some of them won't.  But I can do it.  And hopefully they will follow my example and do so as well.  Lead by example.

The game is moving forward.  I am sure once the new arena's have balanced out in numbers, you will find that you can all fly together once more, on whatever side you want.   Unfortunately that time is not now.  We are in a transitional phase.  Let's be part of the solution not the problem.

WE, the COMMUNITY, need to make this work.  You DO NOT want HTC to step in and FORCE the sides to balance out, and that is exactly where this is going.  Try to imagine logging in, and only being allowed to fly on the side with the lowest numbers, and you can't switch.  That could very well happen if we as a COMMUNITY doesn't do something about it.  Don't force HTC to step in and do a COAD fix for it.  You won't like it.  

This is our time to shine.  Here.  Now.  Sure it might mean changing sides 3-4 times a day as the numbers fluctuate.  You know what?  That's ok.  This is only temporary.  Give it a try, you just might like it.  Being a leader, or "known", or at the very least super vocal on chn200, (or heck, any player really) other players will see you doing it, and do it as well.  The sides will balance out, and a much better time will be had by all.

To some this is asking a lot.  Well, i'm asking it.  We need to have faith that Dale knows what he's doing here, and we should be trying to HELP him make this a better game.  Things will even out soon enough.  Until then, let's all try to be part of the solution, not the problem.

So next time you log in, check the County Status, and if one side is horribly unbalanced, change to it.  Not only that, if you have friends or squaddies on, asks them to go with you.  



If I may, I would like to address FALCONWING here personally.  I considered doing this in private, but it applies to any CO of a large squad.

FALCONWING and I are (I think anyway) on good terms, and I have much respect for him (and I hope that is reciprocated).

Brother, you have a chance at helping shape the future of this game.  In an arena with 600 players, 60 are a lot, but not overwhelming.  In an arena that holds 250 players, 60 players is a HUGE amount that CAN affect the gameplay of the other 190 players.  I don't want you to forget the past (i.e. you history, your rules, all that).  Far from it.  But please consider instead focusing on what you might be able to do to make it a better future in the game for EVERYBODY in the game.  

Because you are in charge of such a large group, it has ripple effects on a ton of players, intended or not.  I hope you realize just how large a ripple effect on the player base you really have.  I respect what you have created on the Bishops.  I really do.  The WM's tried 3 wings in AW and ended up disbanding it all and changing countries.  (Thus the JB's and a few other squads that are now in AH were formed btw)  Managing that many players is no easy task.  Until everything balances out, please consider letting the BOP's change sides to even things up.  It would only be on a temporary basis, and I don't think that is asking too much.  If you do it, others will also.   (*cough* there's that ripple I mentioned)

This only needs to be done on a short-term basis until all the arenas even out some.  Balance will eventually be restored, and all you can settle in on one side again.  This is a short-term inconvenience, which will have long term, long lasting results.

It would help, and I really would appreciate you considering it.

Deserves to be in bold letters.

[999000]

Sir Laz2,  In your post you take the high road..stating everyone should be flexible etc for the good of the game... I agree...What I don't understand thou is in regarding your squad you state

"we accept very few" and further more: under recruitment on the Blue Knights (BK's) web page..it reads something like "the Bk's exsist for the fight. If Base capture, bombing runs or winning the "war"that never ends is what you enjoy then this is not the squad for you.
Killing toolsheds is very low on the list..In fact it isn't on the list at all."

Keep in mind that is why others do play the game ..and they would appreciate the same flexibility and respect. maybe the Bk's will even come out of their single dimention.... and participate fully ...because right now its easy to tell people just to switch sides so their is always just a good furball for them.
999000

[999000]

WMLUTE
MUCH RESPECT SIR!
The part that bothers me is that a really cool part of the game is when someone can organize a particulair team at a particuliar time...It has nothing to do with large squads...It has everthing to do with the unique and rare ability of someone to take charge who knows what they are doing and is respected..Falconwing, 68KO, FBdred, and USgrim are those rare individuals....It seems we will be penalizing these individuals because of their rare ability to lead.  To be apart of any of these groups in action is some of the best times I'v ever had...I would add it is also great fun to try to bust a cap when your on the other side!
999000

[FALCONWING]

WMLUTE: you know i have much respect for you sir...i appreciate your tone and your posting message.

Lute, My squad, as many have pointed out, was formed to encourage good game play.  As many bish can testify, we ran and organized the missions that helped bish have fun when we were greatly outnumbered and reduced in bases.  We grew within those confines.  The rules we used were designed to create barriers to jumping to the favorable side and creating further imbalance.  the easy way out at the time was always to have moved to knits or rooks and been able to fly with numbers and no pressure.  we chose the hard road and grew within that environment.

As a result we helped, as did the other bish squads, stabilize the map...and the last few months the map has been very stable..sometimes with single large maps lasting one week without a reset.  I have NEVER cared about "winning" a map.  The only thing i considered winning was not being under constant threat of reset and gangbang.

Im sorry to disagree with those who feel we have "poor" quality pilots.  We have some of the best...in ALL categories...i bet few of the frequent posters in here can perform as well in ALL aspects of the game..and I am positive that my top 5 in any category can compete with any other squads top 5 pilots.  I havent checked the scores..but im pretty sure there are at least 8 bops in the top 100 pilots.  All challengers are welcomed to prove me wrong.

Now we are somehow "the problem" and we are expected to fix the inequalities caused by abruptly changing the arena size by "changing" who and what we believe in. WHY?  There are several very large squads in each country..and i think there over 300 squads in existence....why single us out?   If you go back and read my original posting...my beef was with the cap limits...it causes all squads difficulty in flying together and IMHO disrupts a large part of the fabric that seperates this game from others...years of winging the same guys. you cant use vox (except individually) across countries.

The solution is easy...change the cap limits...if the response remains "go suck an egg"...then my response is a polite "deal with your own mess then".  our squad's contribution was to stabilize gameplay by stabilizing numbers by giving guys "a home" during a time there was no stability.  if we start changing our "rules" then we are no different then the other squads/individuals who jump wherever "the fight is best".  I will contend that THEY are the problem..they could equalize the arenas without changing their rules...but lets be honest..human nature is human nature..the best fights for most people are not outnumbered and outmanned..they will JUMP to the advantage.  I cant control that.

[BTW]

Originally posted by Pyro
Quantum physics sounds like meaningless drivel to me but that doesn't invalidate it.  Now I can't share proprietary data but I did think that how we monitor our business would be self-evident - if not in detail at least in general.  I'll elaborate but before I go on, I'm curious; how do you think we measure what we're doing?  Just by the BBS?  

Our business is very measurable in many different ways.  Our customers move through our system and one way we can measure is to see how many people make it to the various points along that journey to give us an indication of how we're doing in any particular area.  It's self evident but I'll spell it out.  Person comes to website --> Downloads game  -->  Creates trial account   --> Plays trial  --> Subscribes  --> Deletes  -->  Possibly returns.   Do you see anything unmeasurable there?  That's our life cycle and it goes on every day.  

So how do we tell if things are healthy?  Some indications the game is healthy is when we are converting a good percentage of trial accounts to subscriptions and our subscriber deletes is held to a good percentage.   If gameplay and/or social conditions degrade, a smaller percentage of trials subscribe and a bigger percentage of subscribers delete.   I didn't think that would be a real shocker but maybe it is.  It's not rocket science or quantum physics and its not black magic.  It's just fundamentals.  Our bottom line is driven by delivering the most fun to the most people.  That's what drives our decisions.

Well that's entirely different from the generic and abstract  "the community is unhealthy." That's very specific, and I don't for a second doubt the need for change to keep interest in the game with more people. I just think the arenas should be more rigidly linked. But I've said that 3 times already, and I suspect I'm becoming obnoxious

So- to say it for the ABSOLUTE last time, with three arenas unrelated you have one game. With three arenas aligned in a hierarchy, you have another game. Which is more fun, which lends itself to more strategy, which encourages participation in all three, and which leaves the community working toward one goal (i.e., to win the war for their side through play in all three arenas)?

The principle is you don't want to introduce an unfun situation to a game to promote behavior, but introduce *more fun* situations to promote behavior. Properly linked and levered, EW and MW would become extremely appealing.
And having the periods divided into three dependent arenas would solve all the same problems as have three *unrelated* arenas.  The eventual problem is the EW arena would hold the most leverage and the goal would be to attract people to the later arenas. The late war arena would hold the coup degrassi ( the place where you win the war) so that should hold some appeal. The problem would be properly levering the MW arena. Maybe I'm nuts, but I think the current change is halfway toward gold.

[MINNOW]

Lute.... I may just have to bring this up with our squad....

Something has to change cause right now I am not even interested in signing in.....

Very well said & Stated....

[thndregg]

I've always had it figured that a squad's purpose here was to stick with, defend, and help *A* "country", much the same in principle to that roll bestowed upon any REAL country's military. I've always been in ONE "country" for my meager two years of playing this.

Now that gameplay is the one-and-only, single-most-important, highly-revered prime directive, and true country affiliation has been rendered nonexsistant, why am I here? Just for gameplay and fun for myself and the squad, that's it, nothing more, eh? No long term commitment to a "country"? Just a commitment to the least numbers on any side. Sounds pretty shallow to me.

P.S.

I posted this, then compared it to "playing tennis with..............myself."

Forgive me, I just woke up from a nap.

[G0ALY]

Any change, in life or in a video game, tends to make some of the population uncomfortable… That is where we are now.

To me the game has always been about the community. You can change the game-play and I will defiantly adapt. But if the basic community-feel of the game changes, I may not.

Oddly, it was not originally my intention to join a BOP wing. One evening one of the Birds of Prey members got under my skin… It happens, you are bound not to get along with everybody. So, I formed my own squad in order to get under their feathers. I named it “Birds of Clay… Pigeons”. HA! Take that!

Unfortunately, it did not go as I had planned. The vast majority of the BOPs found my squad name to be funny, and invited me to tag along for a few missions. What I found with the group was the kind of banter that you have with friends at a back yard BBQ. I’ve never met a single squad mate, but that doesn’t matter to me. When I heard that one of the BOPs computer took a dump and he could not play, I took the video card out of my old PC and shipped it to him free of charge within 24 hours. That is how the community of this game should be.

Some changes are good and stand the test of time. Some are not so good and fade into obscurity… Does anyone here remember when the Coca-Cola Company introduced the  “New Coke” recipe?

Look what I just did… It’s Friday night, I have a cold beer, and rather than spending my evening in a game I really enjoy playing, I’ve wasted my time reading 19 pages of this dibble. So, let’s give it a chance. See what works, and what doesn’t… Then sit down with a refreshing “Pepsi Free” and hash it out.

[Donzo]

Will santa be visiting ALL of the arena's this Chirstmas?

[Dichotomy]

Lute

well said sir

[Baylor]

why am I here? Just for gameplay and fun for myself and the squad, that's it, nothing more, eh? No long term commitment to a "country"? Just a commitment to the least numbers on any side. Sounds pretty shallow to me.

Im sorry...but this is a game and games are meant to be fun.  I honestly believe if you are pledging your allegiance to a computer games country structure, something is missing in your life.  I am committed to a country, its the US of A.  Anything in this game is just that...a game...figment of my imagination and I dont allow my imagination run wild and think that I am actually fighting for the Rooks.  Maybe that is where we are different, you allow yourself to get more wrapped up in this game than I do.

[doc1kelley]

Originally posted by lazs2
viper... really, seriously... How old are you?  If you are like 15 I will let up a little on you.

His age is not revelant.


BK's only rule is that if even one person doesn't want you in..... you don't get in.    

Oh you actually have a rule?

Your rule (amoung many) is that if you ever explore any other country even if it only to improve gameplay for the entire community... you are kicked out.

We have two rules and only two.  Now for the rub... The rule has nothing to do with your injecting of your new found perception of our 2nd rule in that they may not jump countries.  Your new version is that they may not jump countries to improve gameplay for the entire community.  You are attempting to modify our rule to fit your arguement and that doesn't hold water.  That rule has been in effect for this wing/squad far longer than you have been a player in this game.  I've never ever seen anything from my squad or Wing to include the phrase that you continually spew.

We accept very few.... you beg for people.  You mega squads take anyone with a mouse and the abilty to not understand what you are doing to them and the community with your rules.

We do not BEG or Recruit people into our Wing/squads.  We once had a new formed squad that did post something in the AH BBS squad forum looking for recruits and that caused a heckstorm with the membership and was quickly abandoned.  Now you continually talk about the "mega-squads" and what they have done to the community and I just gotta ask, what have the BK's done for the community?  Well they do instill scorn, they do screw with the limits of all the rules on the BBS and in the game.  They like to "game the Game", they like KAOS.  Before you say anything about that I'll remind you of the P-40 vultchfest you guys did on yourselfs to start a bunch of crap in the community.  Not to mention all the endless trolls from that pillar of the community, your squad the Blue Knights.

How can you say that your "rule" is good for the community?  How can you say that good gameplay can ever be achieved when every attempt at balancing sides is something that your squad does everything in it's power to fight?


Your past actions and those of your squaddies have been observed in action in their deed for the good of the community.  Give us all a break and end this frigging mega-troll that you guys have started.

Your rule makes anything you say about good gameplay meaningless.

It's our rule and our fun, NOT yours, go soak your head.

Our squad switches at will... we will even fight each other.... we go to the side with least numbers when possible and areas that are evenly matched at others.


Heck, we really don't care if you switch sides, swap spit with each other or how many times you do it.

We get to fly with the guys we were fighting last week... we get to know em on a whole new level..

Yeah, that's why we are always looking over our shoulder when we see you guys on our country. hehehe

Sooooo...  who is "community" here?   you with your cult like rules and refusal to help the community and the game with any kind of balancing and your inability to ever interact with any other "chesspiece" other than negatively or....


Well over time I've seen that your community is definately not MY community and I just don't give a varmit's buttocks if you like it or not.

Us with our willingness to make for good gameplay and fight for and against every player no matter what "chesspiece"?

Well again, I don't care what you think is good gameplay, I happen to like being in a team environment and it's good gameplay for me or I wouldn't be paying for it.

What is the more logical and fair way?

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[ByeBye]

Lazs is dead on. If your squad will kick people out just for switching sides, then you squad is a joke.

[Stang]

DocKelly, BK's started this "mega troll?"

Please elaborate.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by 4510
Whether it is separate squads that agree to work together (think Rook Joint Ops) or an organization that is large and calls itself one squad.. what is the difference?

What we are seeing in all of this is a human nature and fundamental flaws in the game design... at least as it relates to human nature.  You aren't going to get a level playing field unless you mandate specifically how many people can be in an arena, force which side they come in on, if someone logs, and unbalances the sides, someone on the high side gets ejected, etc.  



So the next best thing is for folks to be vocal and make sure that "their" brand of AH is represented.  With this change I think the pure "ACM" ( and I use that term loosely) folks get what they want and the large arena folks get what they want.  The cap limits.... obviously trying to break old habits... or afraid that if they are returned to higher limits ... the grand experiment will fail.

RJO hasn't been around in the "way it is referenced" since Fall of 2003.   This has exceeded it's effective use.