Author Topic: 109's (Read 789 times)

macleod01 · « **on:** October 01, 2006, 02:24:42 PM »

I want to know one thing. Juxst HOW ARMOURED ARE THEY! It takes ages to get one down! In the Battle Of Britain, I fired of loads of rounds from Spit 1 and D200- and only got him smoking plus possible PW, and today, Racked 109F with Spit 5 mgs and used up almost all my ammo before he died! He upped again and it took myself and a F4F to get him down! Just how armoured are they!

Major Biggles · « **Reply #1 on:** October 01, 2006, 03:08:04 PM »

not very much, you just need to aim well and hold your hits in the same place, just like killing anything really

also, the spit5 mgs are really silly. you need to be a good shot working at the right convergence distance to get anything useful out of them

1895 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 01, 2006, 03:14:38 PM »

With a spit 1 or hurri 1, aim for the cockpit, or tail, i can kill 109s with about 60 rounds of 303 against a tail and a 100,180 for a wing

macleod01 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 01, 2006, 03:18:41 PM »

ok, caus I riddled him all over and HE WOULDNT DIE!

Sketch · « **Reply #4 on:** October 01, 2006, 04:37:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by macleod01
ok, caus I riddled him all over and HE WOULDNT DIE!

Because you were 'hitting' him all over you were ust putting little holes all over him. The hard part is to focus your hits on one spot and keep it there. I usually go for canopy, wing roots, wing tips or tails. Dead six shots are hard to get good at because your shooting at a smaller surface than if your at any other angle. Getting a decent hit percentage is hard and takes practice. I know guys that have played for 5 years and only maybe a 4% hit rate... but you have to figure how many bullets your shooting at a time. Is it 30x .303's or is it 2x 30mm... 1x 30mm hit will give you a 50% hit rate, while you will need 15x .303's to get that.... good luck!

Mace2004 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 01, 2006, 04:41:17 PM »

They're fairly tough but not overly so. I've got film from my last sortie in BoB yesterday where 80% of a109 is covered in .303 hit sprites at d200 and it flies away not even smoking but that's kinda the norm for .303. I'd guess that with the Spit V you might not be getting 20mm hits but instead just getting the .303 hits and since you've only got 4 of them it's gonna take quite a few bursts.

I went back and counted the hit sprits on four kills during BoB (all 109E) and here's how they added up:

1st: D200; 3 bursts; 45 sprits; cut off left wing
2nd: 3rd: D400 to 4th: D800 to
Now this was with .303s but it appears there's a major difference related to range. On the last one I got 127 sprits from D800 to D200 before I could get him to smoke. On the 3rd I got him smoking from about D300 with 23 sprits. The kill shots were all between D200 and D0.

This is pretty consistent with what I've seen against other planes so don't think there's anything particularly unusual about the 109, it's probably more related to the .303s and concentrating your hits than anything else.

Mace

Reynolds · « **Reply #6 on:** October 01, 2006, 06:01:51 PM »

Wanna be a biatch? When I fly 109s, the first things to go are always the horizontal stablisers, aim for those,and you are golden. They are weak, and when they fall off, its a ***** to fly.

Squire · « **Reply #7 on:** October 01, 2006, 07:51:04 PM »

What was your convergence set at with the Spit I?

macleod01 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 02, 2006, 06:56:08 AM »

275 - 250

Squire · « **Reply #9 on:** October 02, 2006, 11:45:12 PM »

I would suggest conv 200, and dont shoot untill your close, if you do that, the 8 x 303s will saw a 109 in peices.

Charge · « **Reply #10 on:** October 03, 2006, 03:20:20 AM »

My heart bleeds when newbies cannot shred 109 left and right in a scenario where many of pilots are quite much more experienced and really don't like to stay in the sights for long...

The situation is not much better for those 109s either. You have to get a solid hit on Spits and Hurris to get them down. The apparent lack of CH6s helps with this.

-C+

Mace2004 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 03, 2006, 06:10:47 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Charge
My heart bleeds when newbies cannot shred 109 left and right in a scenario where many of pilots are quite much more experienced and really don't like to stay in the sights for long...

The situation is not much better for those 109s either. You have to get a solid hit on Spits and Hurris to get them down. The apparent lack of CH6s helps with this.

-C+

You're absolutely right about Hurricane toughness which is better than average and can take a lot of hits. On the other hand, I think the Spit is pretty average (in toughness). You're also right about the 109s. The better turn rates of the Hurri/Spit combined with the abysmal over the nose and forward visibility in the 109 gives the 109 a tough job. Usually, if the 109 is going to get a deflection shot on a hard turning target he has a very tough time getting sufficient lead while keeping sight and even if he get's hits in a hard turn they're usually just the MGs, not the cannon due to ballistics. With a target as tough as the Hurri that's usually not good enough. You've got to get the cannon rounds on him or lots of MG. From what I can tell the best 109 sticks have learned to use offset and roll to keep sight for deflections vice matching fuselage position and staying in plain.

Mace

Angus · « **Reply #12 on:** October 03, 2006, 08:29:11 AM »

I was in the BoB the other day. I sawed off a Ju88 wing and got an assist on a 109 without using much of my ammo.
Concenrate your fire and be close.

Squire · « **Reply #13 on:** October 03, 2006, 03:16:49 PM »

Yep, same advice for 109s, too many Early War types just spray fire and think that its the same as firing 4 x 20mm cannon, its not. Have some discipline, and get in close, and dont fire unless your going to score hits.