Great Speech by Senator on Global Warming

[Airscrew]

Originally posted by midnight Target
Glaciers don't (aren't supposed to) change drastically with the seasons. That's why they are glaciers and not just snow.

And glaciers dont last forever either.  If they did then Michigan and the Sahara desert would be under a ton of ice.

[Airscrew]

Originally posted by Hawco
Very enlightening when you look at this:
Oil & Gas:
Top 20 Recipients
Election cycle:  2006 2004 2002 2000 1998 1996 1994 1992 1990
List Top 20:   All Recipients Presidential Candidates Senators Members of the House Senate Candidates House Candidates All Members of Congress
Just follow the money in these things-easy2

Hawco, of course you realize almost half (8) come from oil producing states, where did you think they would get contributions from?  You're only painting a small part of the picture.  How much money did they recieve total in contributions in the same period?  How much did the enviromentalist contribute?

[Pongo]

Reads like it was written by coultier.
I cant imagine any reasonably intelligent person would be reasured by reading it.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Pongo
Reads like it was written by coultier.
I cant imagine any reasonably intelligent person would be reasured by reading it.

I can't imagine a reasonably intelligent person being able to downplay what he says about hype and bias.

[Hawco]

Originally posted by GtoRA2
Why did you post, you do know this thread is about global warming and the media hype behind it right?

I am not going to do your research for you. I will just take it as concession you have no clue about either, I already knew that anyway.


(granted I don’t either, but I didn’t make the pointless post in the first place)

Even some of the right wing death cult members on here can point you in the direction on this one, sometimes, even they are able to connect the dots.. sometimes..

[ROC]

I think that if everyone that feared for the life of the planet turned off their electricity and sold their car, then preached the end of the world, I might take them more seriously.

At Best, they would shave off a portion of the pollutants they are concerned about (can't do a thing about the Volcanos though, sorry guys, GEs post was spot on.  More pollutants in a single eruption than the entire industrialized society has spewed since the steam engine)

Do any of you walk to work? Work in a pollution free environment?  Got a Car?  Have the Lights On at home?  Use anything Plastic?  Synthetic?  Manufactured?  Do you grow your own food?  Buy only Organic Natural Veggies in Plastic Bags or Tubs?  Those pesky farmers use Tractors.  Oh the Humanity, wishing for the days of the Indian when life was Grand and oh so full of harmony.  Guess what, they killed animals, yep, wore leather too (gasp)  Fig leaves just don't keep out the snow very well.  Oh, they killed each other alot also, but hey, it's only natural.  Oh, wait, that won't work, they burned wood.  Have to go back a bit farther.

What, a fireplace just wont do for you?  A bicycle isn't good enough?  You have, for some reason, a valid reason for burning fuel and using electricity but clearly the rest of us are the ones wasting?  

Get over yourselfes

Go form an all natural commune, help do your part to save the world, put your money where your mouth is and get past this hypocricy.  Remove 100% of those things that so offend you before you start in on what anyone else should do.  Really, think about it.  Think about all the Doctors and Farmers and Really Good People that wish for a utopian world.  There are enough of you to just pool your resources and do it.  Your valiant act of humanity and caring would save the world.  Pool your money and go buy, oh I dunno, Idaho or something, go Commune all the way.  Heck, you can have California for all I care.  Go save it, quit typing, you are hitting a plastic keyboard that the manufacturing process caused some emmissions to leak into the air.  Go make some Ink out of dead octopusses or something, use bark, and make your message heard loud and clear through Action, not keystrokes.  You are typing on a computer that causes radiation, lighting a house that had to use burnt coal or damned a river to light, how can you live with yourself increasing the demand for these evil things?  Don't you know anything? Demand causes More to be Made!  Stop, Step Away, Save yourselves, save the planet.

Bet ya can't.  But, you care, and that's what matters.  

I feel better, that was fun

[Airscrew]

ROC   ^^:rofl ^^

[Hawco]

Originally posted by Airscrew
Hawco, of course you realize almost half (8) come from oil producing states, where did you think they would get contributions from?  You're only painting a small part of the picture.  How much money did they recieve total in contributions in the same period?  How much did the enviromentalist contribute?

If you do your research, you will find that the person concerned is also funded to the tune of 4.5m from a think tank that is in turn funded by the Oil companies, the purpose of said think tank is to spread debate such as this, go read and ask questions, educate yourself on these topics, follow the money, If you follow the money then you can find out where all these Senators are coming from.

[lukster]

All we really need is for a bunch of Hollywood dogooder wannabes to get together and have a fund raising concert to end global warming. They ended hunger in Africa didn't they?

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by Sabre
Now you're just being glib.  We were talking about mankind's CO2 emissions' impact on global warming, not on pollution in general.  If you want to talk about deforestation and its impact on global oxygen levels, start another thread.  As for your statement on economy, I'm not sure what you mean by "economies will collapse if we continue as we do", or why you think Kyoto-type measures will improve future economies.  Can you explain?  And may I suggest you read the Senator's speech in full and discuss where exactly you feel he got it wrong?

What he is saying is nothing new. He sais pretty much what the defenders of status-quo has said for a long time. You may belive it and thats fine, but I dont.

We can start a never ending link fest on the topic i guess, but thats been done before.

[Angus]

I'm game.
BTW, nice glacier pics there above. Guess it's them hot springs and volcanoes melting them
And as for the Hollywood guys, yeah, they should get on to the problem.
At least many of them are travelled, so they might have seen a problem like that one

[Sabre]

Originally posted by Nilsen
What he is saying is nothing new. He sais pretty much what the defenders of status-quo has said for a long time. You may belive it and thats fine, but I dont.

We can start a never ending link fest on the topic i guess, but thats been done before.

No link-fest necessary.  I made some specific points, stated analogies and examples, and asked you some specific questions.  What specific points and evidence the senator advances do you disagree with, and why?  The flip-flopping media bias (and which alarmist position, warming or cooling)?  The debunking of the hocky-stick graph?  The relative ranking of world problems (with Global Warming listed at the bottom)?  The evidence that suggests that this is part of the normal thermal cycle of the planet?

I'll admit that I'm skeptical of enviromentalist alarmism (the senator provides pretty good evidence of their poor track record).  Did you believe the ice-age alarmists during the '70's? If so, what do you think about their being wrong on that?  If not, why, and why do you believe them now, when their position is exactly opposite?  I'm just trying to understand why you hold the position you do?  Simply stating, "I don't believe him," is not likely to convince anyone.  Your position seems to be grounded not in science, but in politics.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Hawco
If you do your research, you will find that the person concerned is also funded to the tune of 4.5m from a think tank that is in turn funded by the Oil companies, the purpose of said think tank is to spread debate such as this, go read and ask questions, educate yourself on these topics, follow the money, If you follow the money then you can find out where all these Senators are coming from.

I see your $4.5 million and raise you:

The fact remains that political campaign funding by environmental groups to promote climate and environmental alarmism dwarfs spending by the fossil fuel industry by a three-to-one ratio. Environmental special interests, through their 527s, spent over $19 million compared to the $7 million that Oil and Gas spent through PACs in the 2004 election cycle.

Connect the dots indeed  

[Pongo]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
I can't imagine a reasonably intelligent person being able to downplay what he says about hype and bias.

Well, how many fosil fuel burning internal combustion engines where there in the late 1930s when he proposes thier impact should have been seen on the climate if we are affecting the climate now? In the whole world there were not as many as there are in canada right now.  His pretext is that if trends in the 1930s didnt show warming why should they now? Well look at the scale of the problem now compared to then. 1/200th of the world was industrialized then, 1/200th isnt now.
Yes grapes grew in England when the Romans conquored it.  It was warmer then and then for several hundred years it got way colder.  We are talking hundreds of years. Not dozens.
A bunch of quotes threw the ages"in december 1892 Dr so and so said its getting colder!" well that proves that those concerned are just nuts. Cause one guy said the oposite a hundred years ago!. Thats the coultier part.
I havent seen the movie he talks about.
But for a while last year you could SAIL to the north pole. Right to the pole!
Think that has been happening much lately? Coincidence?
They can track the occurence of volcanos for thousands of years by how the ash in the air lowered tempatures and stunted growth in trees. It was not unresonable to think in the 70s that all the smoke we are creating would lower tempatures. And maybe it should have, maby the haze from contrails is ballancing the increase in heat from green house gasses. Maybe if we shut down our SUVs we will have an ice age.

[wetrat]

I think we should be much more worried about smog, polluted lakes/rivers... all that kinda stuff. We KNOW that's our fault. We don't know that global warming is our fault, as we aren't even sure if there actually IS global warming.

(yes, it's a little warmer at present, but what about 50 years from now? maybe it's colder...)