Author Topic: This could have happened to me when I was young... (Read 874 times)

Bruno · « **on:** September 29, 2006, 02:47:51 PM »

Here's the situation:

After a college football game 4 friends are waiting for cab and a big drunk dude comes up to the four talking smack (cursing and spitting etc...). and then a brief fist fight ensues. Only 3 punches were thrown and the drunk is 'knocked out' and the four friends go on their way. The drunk was 6' 2" and the kid that 'knocked him out' was 5' 8".

As it turned out the 'drunk' was killed from the last punch. Apparently, the drunk died when an artery going to his brain was torn due to his head twisting back from the punch.

Only two of the four were involved in the fight. One threw 2 punches and the other threw 1. After it was over the four got in a cab and went on their way thinking they just knocked out some big drunk dude. They didn't realize the drunk was dead.

The two that threw the punches are charged with second degree murder and are currently on trial in Jacksonville, Florida. One of the other 2 not charged is my brother's wife's younger brother Justin Shaw. None of these four are dopers or drunks or wanna be gang bangers.

Now when I was a kid I fought all the time. I have hit folks with bottles, bats, boards etc... I am not bragging but I have been involved on many fist fights and have been on the receiving end of few hard hits myself. However, in all the fights I have been in and have seen I could easily be in the position of the 2 kids charged above. I have seen my younger brother (he's much bigger and stronger then me) hit a guy so hard that he actually left his feet before hitting the guy and sliding on his back.

Testimony blames another with hit that felled student

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 29, 2006, 02:52:37 PM »

Who threw the first punch?

Mickey1992 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 29, 2006, 03:00:12 PM »

Walk away. If you don't, you sure as hell better be able to prove it was self-defense.

Bruno · « **Reply #3 on:** September 29, 2006, 03:09:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GtoRA2
Who threw the first punch?

Lane did but it doesn't matter in regards to my point. I am not arguing who should be charged or convicted but how easily I could end up in the same spot.

I sure wouldn't wait for a 6' 2" drunk to hit me, especially after seeing how one punch can kill ya... Call it a 'preemptive strike'...

Mickey1992 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 29, 2006, 03:10:16 PM »

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060927/LOCAL/209270335/1078/NEWS

5 on 1, and a witness saw one of the suspects spit on the victim after he was knocked to the ground.

With a jury of 4 women and 1 man, he's toast.

Everyone with a highschool or college-aged son should have them read about this story. You can kill someone with a punch, and get charged with murder. No matter how cool street fighting looks on YouTube, you can seriously screw up your life.

Bruno · « **Reply #5 on:** September 29, 2006, 03:19:38 PM »

It wasn't a '5 on 1 fight'. The witness stated five were standing around and saw 1, Foss, punch the victim. Only 2 threw punches, Lane and Foss. There were only 3 punches thrown overall, the one from Foss being the one that killed Brown.

Quote

Everyone with a highschool or college-aged son should have them read about this story. You can kill someone with a punch, and get charged with murder. No matter how cool street fighting looks on YouTube, you can seriously screw up your life.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Regardless, of how silly this type of 'fist fight' may seem when someone losses their life someone has to be held accountable. The jury will decide as to what degree.

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 29, 2006, 03:25:58 PM »

had a friend who punched a guy...knocked him out...head hit corner of a curb, dies two weeks later...my friend gets 8 years for manslaughter...

it was a fair fight, 1-1, but if someone dies, there's hell to pay.

ujustdied · « **Reply #7 on:** September 29, 2006, 03:33:32 PM »

if the guy was a drunk in a truck first of all, who would believe a drunk. second, why would a drunk come up to someone and start talking chit. did these guys know each other? 3rd couldnt the kids say that the drunk started punching and the kids were trying to defend them selves? the guy was a drunk driver. its better he payed for it then for someone elses life to be ruined when he hit someone in his truck.

there are fights that happen like this. my dad was telling me that when he was little there were 2 kids that wanted to fight. one pushed the other and the kid tripped over a curb and hit his head and died. its silly things like that, that will ruin someone.

bsdaddict · « **Reply #8 on:** September 29, 2006, 03:41:49 PM »

I'm not sure exactly what I want to say. My younger brother was killed in a similar situation. Well, not that similar, but he was (sucker)punched and he did (eventually)die as a result. I have zero patience for ^%$#&^%'s who think it's ok to resort to violence like that. I don't effing care if the drunk was mouthing off, the kids coulda walked away. Eff them, I hope they meet some real friendly fellows in prison.

Mickey1992 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 29, 2006, 03:58:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bruno
It wasn't a '5 on 1 fight'. The witness stated five were standing around and saw 1, Foss, punch the victim. Only 2 threw punches, Lane and Foss. There were only 3 punches thrown overall, the one from Foss being the one that killed Brown.

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060929/LOCAL/209290312/1078/NEWS

"Justin Shaw, 21, who was with the five men the night of the game but wasn't arrested, told jurors on Thursday that Brown stumbled up to the group in the CSX parking lot, and mumbled an obscenity at them. Shaw said he didn't follow the five men when they walked over to Brown, but rode toward Jacksonville's beaches with them in a cab that was eventually stopped by police."

"Justin Shaw, 21, said Brown appeared to be drunk when he cursed them as they sat on the curb waiting for the taxi."

The 5 suspects left their curb-side seats, walked over to the victim, and attacked him. It was 5 on 1, but only 2 threw punches.

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 29, 2006, 04:38:22 PM »

Yep your brothers buddies picked a fight with a drunk, some are going to pay for it.

Sounds about right, I would feel sorry for them if the drunk had attacked them, but since they had to be tough guys and go beat on the guy for being a bad drunk, they are going to pay for the death.

Sucks to be them. Sucks even more to be the dead guy.

Sounds like your brother needs new friends.

I hope you didn't go around beating drunks for insulting you.

J_A_B · « **Reply #11 on:** September 29, 2006, 04:38:22 PM »

4 guys on an open street in which they had the option to simply walk away? Even if only 2 of them fought, it's still 2 on 1 with additional help nearby--not exactly "bad odds". Add in the two making the first punch, and you'll have an awfully hard time making it look like self defence on their part. The prosecutor will have a much easier time making it look like a group of macho guys beating up on a dumb drunk. The latter is probably closer to the truth, too.

Bad language isn't sufficient cause to attack someone. It's unfortunate that the guy died (moreso for *his* family, if he has one), but as you describe it, the kids ARE responsible.

If you think you could easily end up in the same situation, you may want to re-examine how quickly you resort to fighting.

J_A_B

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 29, 2006, 04:53:12 PM »

Listen to you pansies! This is ****ing dissapointing! From all of you!

Quote

Everyone with a highschool or college-aged son should have them read about this story. You can kill someone with a punch, and get charged with murder. No matter how cool street fighting looks on YouTube, you can seriously screw up your life.

You? can screw up your life? You?

Are you kidding me? IT'S THE ****ING GOVERNMENT THAT CAN SCREW UP YOUR LIFE. The solution to this entire case is to put it in the hands of a 6 year old. Maybe then you will all realize how ****ed up you are when you see the pure logic of it.

A fight happened. Both sides went to blows, no side really attacked the other. No side maliciously attacked the other person. Once the fight was over, they left. The death of the handsomehunk drunk wasn't even a considerable consequence of the actions. No one knew it was going to happen, nor was it to be expected.

Case ****ING closed.

J_A_B · « **Reply #13 on:** September 29, 2006, 05:04:28 PM »

"The death of the handsomehunk drunk wasn't even a considerable consequence of the actions. No one knew it was going to happen, nor was it to be expected."

It just so happens that it's illegal to kill someone as an unintended consequence of committing another crime, be it a felony or a misdemeanor. If you rob a bank and the teller dies of a heart attack, you're responsible for that death. If you get into a needless street fight and inadvertently kill someone, you're responsible.

Feel free to call everyone pansies and pat yourself on your back for how manly you are; feel free to blame the evil government instead of people who decided to punch first and not bother to ask any questions later (they could have at least made sure the guy was all right, no?), but that's how it is and even a 6-year-old could see it.

J_A_B

john9001 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 29, 2006, 05:45:32 PM »

they will find lots of fights in prison to prove their manliness.