Pearl Harbor

[Stringer]

Originally posted by JB88
i blame chester earl garveston of 3241 chippewa lane, topeka kansas.

And he is also responsible for not returning my hedge trimmer

[Thrawn]

What type of dolt picks the nick "WTC"?  Oh...that one.

[john9001]

not based on any facts, but just a gut feeling, i have to blame canada, they never liked us.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by john9001
not based on any facts, but just a gut feeling, i have to blame canada, they never liked us.

[Overlag]

the whitehouse knew it was going to happen...... but let it happen because it was the only way for the public to "allow" them to enter the war.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Overlag
the whitehouse knew it was going to happen...... but let it happen because it was the only way for the public to "allow" them to enter the war.

That's one theory. However, after reading about the subject a few years back, I'm convinced that FDR just got caught with his pants down (literally, he was cheating on his wife while serving in the white house) and at the risk of getting sidetracked..it sounds familiar...think Clinton/Lewinski and Bin Laden...

[T0J0]

They called it "Roosevelts war" and the same type of conspiracy nuts that are convinced today that 911 was an inside job claimed that Roosevelt set the japanese up, forcing them to attack pearl harbor... Left the main fleet stacked up in the harbor row after row, sent the carriers on bogus missions to get them out of harbor. I have heard that tail repeated since 1968 over and over again...
 Amazing how advanced we get and how little we change.... Accept back then the democrats backed locking people up in internment camps to protect us without due process and it was ok you know there was a war on and all, we had to protect the country you know...

[Charon]

They called it "Roosevelts war" and the same type of conspiracy nuts that are convinced today that 911 was an inside job claimed that Roosevelt set the japanese up, forcing them to attack pearl harbor...

Prang covers this in detail. Back then the initial conspiracy nuts were the Republicans during an election year dealing with a Democratic party that had been in the driver's seat under Roosevelt during the war. They needed to discredit his legacy, and by inference that of the Democratic party. This was conducted as part of the post war Congressional investigations into the attack, where various charges and suggestions were made as part of the overall blame game.

To a large part, such explinations were easier to accept by the public (and even many in the military) than "We screwed the pooch and the Japs kicked our ass"

Left the main fleet stacked up in the harbor row after row, sent the carriers on bogus missions to get them out of harbor.

This is a commonly stated deal by the conspiracy folk, but if you understand Naval philosophy at the time it doesn't hold water. Until Pearl Harbor, the battleship was still officially considered king of the fleet, even after Toranto. For this to make sense the bulk of the battleships would have been out on patrol, leaving less important units like the carriers in harbor.

Charon

[J_A_B]

Docking the ships in rows actually saved a couple of the BB's from taking major damage.

J_A_B

[Debonair]

Marine General John F. Kinney's autoobiography Wake Island Pilot - which is a real kick bellybutton good book - says everyone knew it was coming, but didn't know exactly where & when and that there was not too much action on the intelligence as a result.  Not too dissimlar to what went on in the USSR just before Barbarossa (except the soviet navy, they were prepared)

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by J_A_B
Docking the ships in rows actually saved a couple of the BB's from taking major damage.

J_A_B

Four ships sunk during the attack were later raised and returned to action,  including the battleships California, West Virginia and Nevada.

IIRC, much usable material was salvaged from the Arizona, Oklahoma, and the old battleship Utah (which wasn't a tactical loss), including the two aft main turrets from Arizona.

[JB88]

Originally posted by Stringer
And he is also responsible for not returning my hedge trimmer

yep.  he's a bad bad man.

[Saxman]

The conspiracy nuts like to use PART of ONE sentence of ONE dispatch between Pearl Harbor and Washington to "tie together" the evil FDR conspiracy of bringing America into the war.

The exact quote escapes me, but basically it boils down to: let Japan make the first move.

What they omit--not just from the paragraph but the SAME SENTENCE--is that the dispatch went on to say "but NOT at the expense of your command."

That says to me the White House was issuing a clear order to allow Japan to be the aggressor--moral high ground, after all--but when the attack arrives come out kicking prettythang and taking names. NOT to sit there and take it UP the prettythang.

[Debonair]

yeah, just so FDR could keep his "no foriegn wars" campaign pledge & shut up the america firsters :noid:noid:furious:mad::furious

[Squire]

There is no serious evidence, 60 years on now, that indicates anything of the sort took place in relation to the US letting itself be attacked. The only thing they can point to, which is common knowldege is the fact that US (and British) intel felt the Japanese were preparing for an attack somewhere in the Pacific/Asia area, but were not able to identify the exact timing, or exact target.

Singapore and Hong Kong were attacked almost at the same time as Pearl Harbor (within days) yet nobody accuses the British of deliberately "letting them". Interesting.

...The reason Japan attacked Pearl Harbor stemmed from their 1937 (2 years before WW2) invasion of China, and the ensuing oil embargo the USA placed on them. To suggest the USA was looking to sacrifice Pearl Harbors forces in order to have a war with Japan to get into WW2 is just flat wrong, and there is zip in the way of evidence or historical facts to back up such claims.