Author Topic: North Korea appears to have gone ahead and done it...  (Read 7587 times)

Offline ByeBye

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North Korea appears to have gone ahead and done it...
« Reply #360 on: October 18, 2006, 10:32:33 PM »
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Originally posted by Neubob
I think that this technical state of war, at this point, is nothing but a loophole. There is no practical state of war, at least yet. If it breaks out between north and south, the war on paper will grandfather us into a shooting war. Do we want this? I think some very important people in the States just might.


My main problem with this whole thing, and I'm nowhere near a personal concensus as to what should be done, is that I seriously doubt Kim's plans to actually use the weapon. In fact, his nuclear program's most potent aspect may just be the defiance with which he tests and demonstrates his power. After the shock of that developement has passed, our collective fear of his possessing this power will settle into a stable uneasiness--just as it did when the Soviets first got theirs, not to mention, more recently, Pakistan and India. It's the testing, the thumbing of the nose, if you will, that is the strongest messege he is likely to send. We can sit back and take it, thus allowing peace to continue but setting a dangerous precedent (or, I should say, re-setting it), or we can smush him and risk a real nuclear exchange.


Nothing can be done about NK's nukes, short of war. I don't think NK would use a nuke unless attacked, but I do think they could possibly sell the technology/material.

I don't think it's a good thing to allow NK to have nukes, but I'm not sure what should be done about it.

Offline Rolex

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North Korea appears to have gone ahead and done it...
« Reply #361 on: October 19, 2006, 03:19:20 AM »
Thanks for your level-headed and reasoned demeanor in this little exercise, Neubob. The question of the catalyst hasn't been talked about, as I hoped it would.

Nationalism, principles or ideology may sprout blinders and earplugs on the heads of people, but disagreements about money raises their fists. Things were going well with North Korea prior to the summary judgement of "axis of evil" status - visits by the South Korean president and Japanese Prime minister, an admission to kidnapping Japanese nationals with accompanying remorse and general thawing of the freeze.

Things were being patched up again during the 6-way talks and the agreement last year by North Korea to continue not developing nuclear weapons in exchange for a promise of non-aggression and to not invade Korea as Iraq was invaded was hailed as a stepping stone back on the path to quasi-normalizing relations.

Three days after the agreement was signed, international banks, under duress from the U.S. Treasury Department, began freezing North Korean assets and all international cash transactions of North Korea. It wasn't a focused measure on questionable accounts, it was a blanket seizure of assets intended to deny North Korea any international trade.

As hard pressed as North Korea is for hard cash, that was a declaration of economic war and slap in the face after all the smiles and hand shaking during the signing of the agreement. The tests we see now is the measure they took to display their anger at what they perceive as a double-cross.

The problem with perceptions of double cross, intensified with the multipliers of money and pride, is that it makes otherwise reasonable people go nuts. What does it do to the marginally sane? Osama bin Laden is just such an example of what happens.

Will shots be fired if attempts are made to board ships in international waters? I don't have any doubt at all. It's happened a few times in the Sea of Japan in the past few years, with all the North Korean sailors dying in the process.

How will the US or Japan respond if they are the one's shot at? I have no confidence that either government leaders are listening to the professionals who have spent a lifetime studying North Korea, or diplomacy in general.

The North Koreans have always been looked at by advanced nations as being clumsy in diplomacy, but it appears they are no more clumsy than any other country.

In conclusion, I think we're witnessing a textbook repetition of how wars began in our textbooks - money, nationalism, pride and stubborness.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2006, 03:21:32 AM by Rolex »

Offline Angus

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North Korea appears to have gone ahead and done it...
« Reply #362 on: October 19, 2006, 08:42:55 AM »
I don't get N-Korea at all.
I mean, they're asking the world for feeding assistance while arming up with nukes and basically telling everybody to get lost.
In a sum-up, - they're asking for trouble. Wars start that way yes, - with one country crossing a line that has been drawn by otherS.
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Offline lukster

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North Korea appears to have gone ahead and done it...
« Reply #363 on: October 19, 2006, 08:55:27 AM »
There have been many shots exchanged between the North and South over the last 50+ years and many killed. Is Kim Jong Il simply posturing for internal and external power and respect? Only time will tell.

President Bush has warned him not to sell weapons. He should understand that a nuke made in the DPRK and detonated in the US by terrorists will likely be viewed as an attack by North Korea itself. There are just too many ways this could lead global thermonuclear war.

Offline Neubob

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North Korea appears to have gone ahead and done it...
« Reply #364 on: October 19, 2006, 09:05:26 AM »
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Originally posted by lukster
global thermonuclear war.


Wouldn't you prefer a nice game of chess?

Offline bj229r

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North Korea appears to have gone ahead and done it...
« Reply #365 on: October 19, 2006, 03:56:17 PM »
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As hard pressed as North Korea is for hard cash, that was a declaration of economic war and slap in the face after all the smiles and hand shaking during the signing of the agreement. The tests we see now is the measure they took to display their anger at what they perceive as a double-cross


Umm..they PRINT their hard cash, whick looks more like US money than money printed here in the states, unfortunately
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Offline Overlag

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North Korea appears to have gone ahead and done it...
« Reply #366 on: October 19, 2006, 03:59:33 PM »
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Originally posted by bj229r
Umm..they PRINT their hard cash, whick looks more like US money than money printed here in the states, unfortunately


that is more of a result of how NK gets treated by the US
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Offline ByeBye

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North Korea appears to have gone ahead and done it...
« Reply #367 on: October 19, 2006, 05:10:20 PM »
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Originally posted by Overlag
that is more of a result of how NK gets treated by the US


You mean like how the US gives more money and aid to NK than any other Asian country? And like, you know, how we gave them nuclear technology and reactors?

All the food and money we gave them is a real insult to them, I'd bet.

Offline Neubob

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North Korea appears to have gone ahead and done it...
« Reply #368 on: October 19, 2006, 05:50:15 PM »
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Originally posted by ByeBye
You mean like how the US gives more money and aid to NK than any other Asian country? And like, you know, how we gave them nuclear technology and reactors?

All the food and money we gave them is a real insult to them, I'd bet.


I think it's more a matter of our redneck dollars interbreeding with their enlightened currency that has caused the recent mutation.

Offline mosgood

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North Korea appears to have gone ahead and done it...
« Reply #369 on: October 19, 2006, 10:02:05 PM »
Hey everyone!  The crises is over.... the NK leader just said he was sorry.

World Peace at LAST!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!

Offline Chairboy

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Offline lukster

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North Korea appears to have gone ahead and done it...
« Reply #371 on: October 20, 2006, 09:49:36 AM »
Looks like Kim got spanked by the Chinese.