Author Topic: Plane Or Helicopter Crashed In Nyc (Read 2101 times)

Chairboy · « **Reply #75 on:** October 24, 2006, 03:55:23 PM »

MU-2 / Cirrus is an apt comparison.

Good airplanes with a lot of pilot-error crashes.

With the Mu-2, I think it's because of some tricky procedures that really require someone to be on the ball. With the Cirrus, I think it's because they're aggresively marketing a high performance plane to low time pilots.

BTW, the Columbia is fantastic. If I had a choice between the two, I'd be in the Columbia in a heartbeat. Niiiice planes, and a much better safety record per sold airplane.

Debonair · « **Reply #76 on:** October 24, 2006, 04:01:07 PM »

last time i was out preflighting a plane a c-152 there was a Columbia running up nearby, man did that thing sound sweet!!! "tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick" it said, sounded more like an electric motor than a piston

Golfer · « **Reply #77 on:** October 24, 2006, 04:35:26 PM »

this accident had nothing to do with the aircraft type. It could have been a similar performing 182 and the outcome would have been the same.

I've seen nothing that was unsafe with a Cirrus. There is a more in depth training program being offered to buyers where you are essentially given a trained and approved CFI with the airplane. The fee is in excess of $70,000 and the CFI gets around $30k or more of that. This will hopefully draw capable and competent people to the training aspect and prevent accidents related to someone being over their head with the less-forgiving airplane when compared with a 172.

Debonair · « **Reply #78 on:** October 24, 2006, 05:46:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Golfer
this accident had nothing to do with the aircraft type. It could have been a similar performing 182 and the outcome would have been the same.

i dont think you can post that until the investigation is over

Quote

Originally posted by Golfer
I've seen nothing that was unsafe with a Cirrus. There is a more in depth training program being offered to buyers where you are essentially given a trained and approved CFI with the airplane. The fee is in excess of $70,000 and the CFI gets around $30k or more of that. This will hopefully draw capable and competent people to the training aspect and prevent accidents related to someone being over their head with the less-forgiving airplane when compared with a 172.

zOMG:O 70 big ones?!?!
you sure it isn't just 7 grand?
i got checked out in a baby bonanza for $1500...

Chairboy · « **Reply #79 on:** October 24, 2006, 05:55:48 PM »

Golfer, the Mu-2 comparison seemed to suggest that he wasn't criticizing the Cirrus itself. It's a fine plane, it just has a higher than usual share of pilot-error accidents, and consensus seems to be that it's because it's marketed heavily to low time pilots. The Mu-2 is another fine plane that has a high accident rate associated with training deficiencies, not the plane.

Golfer · « **Reply #80 on:** October 24, 2006, 06:04:37 PM »

was told around $70k.

Makes me want to get back into the Cirrus. I don't know how many clients they are allowed to have but it sounds like a heck of a gig to me.

Surely not just any joe schmoe CFI will be permitted.

Chairboy · « **Reply #81 on:** October 24, 2006, 06:21:00 PM »

Cirrus has a program where they rebate your training costs if you use a Cirrus. That'd be about $7k, so I bet that's the actual figure.

$70k? That'd be ATP training for slooooow learners.

Golfer · « **Reply #82 on:** October 24, 2006, 06:50:11 PM »

That $70,000+ would be something along the following lines:

Your own assigned instructor with your own scheduling rules to take you through your private and instrument rating and additional training following that. I didn't have any timeframe information.

This is from my former boss telling me what the cirrus folks told someone he knows in his rotary. The guy he knows was so impressed with the way my boss used his airplane for both personal and business purposes he wants to buy a brand new one for himself.

That seems the meat and potatoes market for cirrus. Business and personal use folks. Self-made type men who will feel they can dig in to being a pilot who have enough money to not worry about costs of owning/operating such an airplane.

If it turns out to be true...I picked the very wrong time to get out of the cirrus financially. I did contract work with OurPlane and must say...I liked the airplane. Typically owners are people who earned everything they have and understand the value of such things. Contrast that to those born into the money who seem to have spoiled not long after having air touch them.

Debonair · « **Reply #83 on:** October 25, 2006, 02:01:08 AM »

thats a good decription of the victims of the fork tailed doctor killer too

JB88 · « **Reply #84 on:** October 25, 2006, 03:23:49 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Debonair
thats a good decription of the victims of the fork tailed doctor killer too

"don't be silly debonair. there is no such th....aggggggghhhhh!!!" - dr. 88