Author Topic: Thrustmaster Cougar  (Read 479 times)

Offline LEADPIG

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Thrustmaster Cougar
« on: October 30, 2006, 11:19:10 PM »
Any opinions ? It looks great but i've heard it's crap and has some drawbacks. Should i just buy CH products?? THanks guys and Gals :cool:

Offline DonULFonso

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Thrustmaster Cougar
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2006, 03:23:06 AM »
Well, I'll try to not get too long winded ;) , but any attempt of a short answer would be over simplifying, and there are some points I'm sure you'd like to know before making up your mind:



If you plan to build an F-16 cockpit and fly jet-sims only, then the HOTAS Cougar's the only true replica on the market, and due to it being made of metal it allows for modding e.g. the throttle to operate as the real deal, too.

If you're not flying jets only, then you don't really need a true replica but 'just' a good HOTAS-system. What's "good" depends only on what exactly you want: Are you content with lots of buttons and axes and with the usual mapping-software but don't need true programmability? Then the Saiteks give you the best bang for the buck, no error; They're known for kicking the bucket rather quickly, tho', so don't expect them to last a lifetime. And they play in a completely different league than the TMs and CHs: If you're after true programmability, then only those can satisfy you, with the CHs with their scripting language being ages ahead of the TMs with their rather raw logical programming. And both of them should last for a lifetime, in the case of the Cougar with the help of replacing the pots and gimbals if you like or have to replace something anyway. CH's stick is modelled after the F-16's stick, too, but it doesn't feature a dual-stage trigger, and the paddle-switch is missing, too. Their throttle isn't modelled after anything but simply designed to provide the largest collection of coolie-hats and buttons on the market; it doesn't feature rotaries like the TMs or the Saiteks, though.



In terms of ergonomics, nothing beats the HOTAS Cougar or comes too close to it: It just feels like a part of your hands, while the CHs feel good, too, but just like extensions of your hands; The Saiteks are too small for my taste, but yours may vary. The buttons and coolies of the HOTAS Cougar have a longer travel than what's normal, and this just feels great! CH's buttons feel good, too, but more like what you're used to (only better); Saitek's buttons and switches feel cheap compared to either of them.

The HOTAS Cougar's design has some potential issues, though - nothing too serious, but something you should be aware of nonetheless: 1st off, the 3-way switches are slightly misaligned and need to be checked and rotated a bit to avoid breaking sooner or later - that's a task of just some seconds (if you rotate them with brute force) to minutes (if you prefer to file their mounts). Moreover, due to the HOTAS Cougar's weight its springs are very hard: there are noticable "transition flats" at the axes, i.e. the stick gets "suckered" into the axes' travels - it is impossible to draw a circle with the stock springs. If you don't mind spending more money on your gear, then this can be solved by getting IJ's Über2next gimbal-mod which doesn't have these transition flats at all; these gimbals require Hall-sensors instead of the stock pots, tho', so a full mod will cost you around at least as much as your Cougar itself. This mod solves the potential issue of the stick's center-play, too. It is an option, but one a user should seriously consider since it makes the Cougar the stick it was advertized as: the best on the market.



If you expect a good support and new drivers for new operating systems, then this more or less would rule out Guillemot as the manufacturer of the HOTAS Cougar, unfortunately: there's been not a single official word (except wrong statements in e-mails) from Guillemot on new drivers although many people have asked for news on 64-bit drivers respectively the upcoming Vista, and tho' Guillemot has released according drivers for some of their products like e.g. racing wheels, the HOTAS Cougar cannot be programmed under 64-bit yet; Saitek has had problems with XP for more than 2 full years, but they seem to have resolved these woes; CH Products' support is unequalled, and with Bob "Sticky" Church they've got the best man working on their software and drivers at that, with 64-bit drivers being available and drivers for Vista in the works.



I've got both TMs as well as CHs, and I wouldn't wanna miss any of them: I love the Cougar's ergonomics, but I whole-heartedly detest Guillemot's stance against their customers, their missing support and their non-existant information policy on new drivers; The prospect of being forced to keep a dual-boot system once the next OS is released due to missing drivers makes me wake up in cold sweat at night. I love my CHs, too, and feel safe knowing their support and information policy and sleep sound knowing my next OS will be supported by my old gear. I wouldn't touch toys like the Saiteks as long as I'm not forced to 'cause I need the option to set my gear up to do exactly what I want them to do in exactly the way I want them to do it.

Just my 2cts as an owner (and (former) beta-tester) of both TMs as well as CHs.

Offline Connection

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Thrustmaster Cougar
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2006, 04:15:27 AM »
I've owned both. Get the CH if you want reliability and good support, get the Cougar if you want 'cool.'

Offline Max

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Re: Thrustmaster Cougar
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2006, 10:50:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by LEADPIG
Any opinions ? It looks great but i've heard it's crap and has some drawbacks. Should i just buy CH products?? THanks guys and Gals :cool:


Without hesitation...go CH. Owned both. Even if the POS pots/gimbel issue weren't a factor ($125 fix for $275 rig? c'mon TM get serious) the throw torque on the stick itself is demanding on most folks.

Shoot me a PM if you want more info.

Offline indy007

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Thrustmaster Cougar
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2006, 12:02:35 PM »
Just got used to my TM Cougar... here's some general impressions...

1) Didn't bother to program it... at all. Just been using it in DirectX mode, and I ran out of commands before I ran out of buttons (keep in mind I very rarely fly 2-engine fighters, buffs, or gv's.. thus I ended up with some hat positions unassigned).

2) I need more bungee cords. In intense fights, I've ripped it off my chair 3 times  just last week.

3) It worked perfect with my CH usb pro-pedals. No conflicts, no programming, everything worked fine out of the box including differential breaks. The slight problem I had was actually one of the pots in the pedals themselves. The joystick has been flawless so far.

4) My Saitek X45 didn't always power-on correctly during PC bootup, and would have to be unplugged, and plugged back in. The Cougar hasn't done this at all. Works first try, every time. No more upping and then figuring out my joystick doesn't work. I like that.

5) The throttle detents definately need to be adjusted. Worked great for Falcon 4: AF... not so great in Aces High.

6) The mouse micro-stick thumb thingy.... probably needs programming to work. I haven't bothered. I just click it for my zoom key.

7) People weren't joking. The stock springs will make you into Popeye in no time.

There's a few details I think could've been done better, but overall, it's been working very well for me.

Offline SlapShot

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Thrustmaster Cougar
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2006, 12:40:51 PM »
I had a Cougar and now own all CH gear.

I loved my Cougar ... BUT ... it's reliability and innards sucked big time and the support was even worse. You could buy one for $275 and spend all of that to get the after market innards to make it a viable stick ... but $500+ for a stick and throttle ... I think not. I GAVE my Cougar to Mars01.

My CH gear ... I love it ... had a problem with the throttle ... was sent a new one ASAP ... I just had to prove that I was the original purchaser.
SlapShot - Blue Knights

Guppy: "The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."

Offline miraj

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Thrustmaster Cougar
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2006, 12:26:01 PM »
What is this gimble mod you speak of , for the HOTAS?

Offline DonULFonso

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Thrustmaster Cougar
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2006, 02:22:50 PM »
It's a replacement for the stock gimbals, with a completely different spring system and a softer spring load; it requires replacing the stock pots with Hall sensors.

Offline GunnerCAF

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Thrustmaster Cougar
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2006, 06:17:12 PM »
Lots of good information on the Cougar here:

Cougar World
Gunner
Cactus Air Force

Offline Mace2004

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Thrustmaster Cougar
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2006, 07:21:44 PM »
Most of the comments about the Saiteks ring true.  The original X-52 had a "deadband" issue that was corrected in later production runs.  The Saitek boards list issues such as intermittent lights, a few other electronic errors, and some "wobble" when the stick is centered but it's hard to say if the stick has more or less problems than the others mentioned.  Considering the popularity of the stick, it doesn't look to me that there are an excessive number of complaints and I've had absolutely no problems with mine.  Also, the stick is an excellent buy ($130 list, $99 street) and has a two-year warranty.  

Customer support appears good and Saitek is responsive to questions and troubleshooting problems on the boards.  The stick is hefty, the spring is light (something I like, others may not).  Ergonomics are good, however, it's not a replica of any actual sticks.  It has lots of buttons and pots, comparable to both the CH and Cougar.  Maybe a few less but..... it also has a "shift" button and three modes that can be selected on the fly so I've never run out of programing options.  Speaking of pots, the stick has Hall Effect sensors already so no mods necessary.  I did mod my stick to tighten the grip which was  little too loose for me, took me about 30 minutes.  Some people don't like the twist grip but I've also gotten the Saitek pedals so I just leave the twist locked.  The design of the spring also means there are no "transition flats".

I've had two X-45 and agree that the switches could be better as I wore out my view hat on both but there is the two year warranty and considering I could buy three or four X-52 for the price of a Cougar the choice is pretty easy.  Actually, come to think of it I got an X-52, Pedals and TrackIR for the price of the Cougar alone.

Also, Saitek is coming out with an X-52 Pro, here supposed to be this month.  It has a dual spring system to give progressively increasing pressure so it's light for fine movements but has realistic resistance to large stick deflections.  The spring cup at the base is also changed from hard plastic to metal.  The Multi-Function Display on the throttle has the ability to display in-game data such as radio frequencies (don't know what will be shown there when flying AH though).  Saitek is also including a Software development kit so you can do your own programing.  The design is basically all black with more metal buttons and wheels so looks more realistic and less spacy if that's important to you, personally, I don't look at my hands when I'm flying.  Looks like it'll list at about $200 so street will probably be around $150.  It'll be interesting to see how much better the Pro is....might have my first item for my Christmas list.
Mace
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