Panther, Tiger, King Tiger vs T-34/85, JS-2, JS-3 slugfest...

[Ball]

Originally posted by Mathman

[GRUNHERZ]

JS3 had great armor but its gun was no better than JS2 which could not defeat Tiger 2 frontally from normal combat ranges wheras the Tiger 2 88/L71 could penetrate the JS3 from under 1000 meters or so (going from gun/armor stats as the two never faced aech other)

So in a frontal slugfest the Tiger 2 would defeat the JS3 well before it got close enough to destroy the Tiger II.

[Mathman]

Originally posted by Ball

[Hawco]

Originally posted by 1K3
Tank experts...

Which tank has the fastest turret turn-rate?

Stalin series tanks (JS-2/3)

or

Tiger series (tiger and king tiger)

?

I'm no tank expert, I can only go on my experience from playing Red Orchestra, all the russian tank turrets move nearly twice as fast as the German ones. The panther is incredibly hard to kill when in a T34/85, you have to get close and then flank it. Tigers are easier to kill than panthers belive it or not. IS2's can pack a wallop, but they are better at long range.
A common mistake people make when in Armour, is they don't have their Tank parked at a 35-40 degree angle to the threat, this gives you an excellent chance to get a few rounds in before dying. I've done this in an IS2 at 900m range and killed Tigers all day long.
Done it in  a PZ IV h on a  T34/85, manged to get the 34 as the h has a fast rate of fire and decent gun too.
Anyway, my 2 cents

[Squire]

I think your right Grun, the 122mm would really need to be very close.

The 88L71 has:

228mm at 100m

211mm at 500m

191mm at 1000m

*The JS3s armor is:

Turret front: 250mm (curved) (@300 protection)

Upper Hull: 120mm at 56 degrees (@180 protection)

Lower Hull: 110mm at 60 degrees (@220 protection)

The KTiger would need a upper hull hit at less than 500 meters, more than likely.

Conversely, the 122mm gun on the IS-2:

164mm at 100m

152mm at 500m

139mm at 1000m

*The KTigers armor is:

Turret Front: 185mm at 10 degrees (@200 protection)

Upper Hull: 150mm at 50 degrees (@225 protection)

Lower Hull: 110mm at 60 degrees (@220 protection)

>It wouldnt be pretty and it would depend perhaps on who got a shot trap into the upper deck, or a shot that came through the side turret.<

The JS3 would be the only one with a real chance though. The rest would not have a prayer.

[Ball]

Originally posted by Mathman

[E25280]

Originally posted by Hawco
Tigers are easier to kill than panthers belive it or not.

I think many games only look at the thickness and slope of armor when deciding damage to tanks.  One thing they seem to overlook (and something I only recently came across) is that the Tigers' armor was not your standard steel.  Instead they used "rolled homogenous nickel-steel plating" that was much harder than the armor used by any other nation or in any other German tank.  This would mean that a round that could theoretically penetrate the exact thickness of the Tiger's armor would in all likelihood still not harm it.

Even after the Panther was introduced, the Tiger was still the king of the battlefield.

[AquaShrimp]

Lets not forget the U.S. M-26!

[humble]

Originally posted by E25280
I think many games only look at the thickness and slope of armor when deciding damage to tanks.  One thing they seem to overlook (and something I only recently came across) is that the Tigers' armor was not your standard steel.  Instead they used "rolled homogenous nickel-steel plating" that was much harder than the armor used by any other nation or in any other German tank.  This would mean that a round that could theoretically penetrate the exact thickness of the Tiger's armor would in all likelihood still not harm it.

Even after the Panther was introduced, the Tiger was still the king of the battlefield.

Actually the nickel steel was utilized because of a shortage of manganese and was very brittle and less suitable for tank armour....

However, in the summer of 1944, the problem of the poor AP performance disappeared. The performance of the D-25T gun of the JS-2 against the German tanks improved dramatically. The reports from the front described cases where the BR-471 APHE round 122 mm projectile fired from 2500 metres ricocheted off the front armour of a Panther leaving huge holes and cracks in it.

This was explained by an interesting change of circumstances in the Summer of 1944. The Germans experienced a shortage of manganese and had to switch to using high-carbon steel alloyed with nickel, which made armour very brittle, especially at the seam welds.

http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=32&Itemid=50

good info on the development of the JS series.

[derkojote23]

Fastest turn of a turet gos to the Tiger the first of its wate class to sport the new hydrolic system its turn rate slow was 360* in 60 min or 360* in 60 sec, at its fastest. this also made it the best at hip shots. My sorce is "Tigers in the mud" and From the arcives in Hamburg when I visited. The tank exibit was cool.

[zorstorer]

Originally posted by derkojote23
Fastest turn of a turet gos to the Tiger the first of its wate class to sport the new hydrolic system its turn rate slow was 360* in 60 min or 360* in 60 sec, at its fastest. this also made it the best at hip shots. My sorce is "Tigers in the mud" and From the arcives in Hamburg when I visited. The tank exibit was cool.

360 in 60 MIN???  You could not even tell the turret was moving....

I am ashamed I can't remember how fast the Bradley could rotate, but it was fast enough to make it fun just to sit in the gunner seat and spin that thing around on hi speed

[derkojote23]

I had a friend in the cor, we did that in the Bradley once, I thought it was cool to till he thru up. LOL, I hope the question about the fastest turret was in reference to WW2 otherwise I’m dead wrong and Id have to go with the new Leopards and the M1s though about the same there are little differences in them that from one tank to the next may make them faster or slower by a fraction. My daughter is assigned to the 7th PZR now as interpreter on lone from the USMC and is in Afghanistan, she sed they usually do turn faster then the M1.

[AquaShrimp]

M-26 Pershing

[Overlag]

Originally posted by Ball
Germans, better optics!

[Ball]