Head-On attacks

[Rocket]

I have a question or a topic of discussion here in the training forum.  I thought this would be a better spot to bring it instead of the main discussion forum.  

The head-on attack whine.  

I don't understand it.  At first I thought it was maybe pilot skill causing a problem or an error in tactics.  Then I saw old hands, good sticks whining about it.  

In fighter combat the idea is to win or force a draw where you can make it home alive.  In the game it is about the win more than forcing the draw.  

The basic problem with a head-on attack is the fact the other guy can shoot at you at the same time.  This is not a good place to be at anytime.  I don't like when the opponant can put his guns on me while I am holding nice and still.  I do this too many times when I saddle up in a multi-bogey situation and fixate on getting the kill before getting killed.  I know I know.. either get the kill fast or don't saddle in a multi bogey situation.

Now back to the topic at hand.  Why are we complaining about HOs? Did we merge in a way to put us in his sights on the initial merge?  During the fight on a nose to nose crossing did we get shot?  In my past experiences I have found that 80%+ of the HO could have been avoided during the initial merge.  I watched videos of this happening and pilot #1 pointed his nose for a nose to nose merge.  Pilot #2 pointed directly at pilot #2 and started his lead turn too late.  Pilot #1 took the opportunity and squeezed the trigger.   Pilot #2 made a mistake, he stayed in front of pilot #1s guns.  Either he didn't read Pilot #1s turn properly or stayed committed to a doomed to fail merge.

A pilot that is planning on forcing a HO has normally already lost the fight.  We can defeat this by making our lead turn earlier as to minimize the time he has to shoot or by taking a route that he can't get a shot on.  One defensive nose to nose merge we can make that may maximize our chance to win the fight along with minimizing the risk of getting taking out HO is to barrel roll into the merge.  Another is dive down below and pull up through to maximize our E and our lead turn.  

If during the fight we get killed in crossing nose to nose well that is part of it.  Remember the angles may just be that you didn't have a good shot or a shot at all and he did.  Sometimes we do something in the middle of the fight that he isn't expecting and we end up nose to nose.  People this is a firing solution and should be taken.  

Sometimes HOs just happen.  Don't get upset.  Don't whine.  Film your fight and figure out what really happened.  Make yourself a better pilot/fighter.  You may find out watching the fight later that there was a better merge solution than the one you chose.  Maybe it was your fault and not his.  

Practice HO defense with a friend, a trainer, or everytime you merge in the arena.  


Oh and btw remember this.  EVERYTIME I have you in my sights at d300 or less I WILL shoot in the EW, MW, LW or AvA.  In the DA I will duel with chivarly, honour, and any rules agreed upon prior to the duel.   I will do so with same or dislike plane types.

S!
Rocket

[GunnerCAF]

Good post Rocket.  I think many times people refer to any head to head shot as a HO.  After the merge if you get hit head on means you tried to out turn your enemy and lost

I agree with what you said on the merge.  If I keep the merging enemy at my 11 o-clock, and start my lead turn before he passes, there will not be a HO because I avoided it.    

The new pilot who only knows to fly at the target and fire should be an easy mark for an experienced pilot who knows how to gain positon before firing.

Gunner

[SKJohn]

I am currently reading one of the Osprey series of books that had the  CO's of different squads in Pacific Theater write up their suggestions and tactics for using fighters. (Can't remember the name of book - don't have it here w/me).
Anyway, I was surprised at the number of them advocating not only taking, but getting into position for the head-on shot.  They pointed out that a) the US a/c had better and more concentrated firepower, b) the Japanese a/c were not armored, and c) the Japanese pilots would often break off the attack early because of a and b.

As far as AH? - just one more theing to b1tch about - Ho, vultch, cherry pick, alt monkey, spit (niki, LA - basically any plane that shoots you down...) dweeb, spawn camper, furballer, tool-shedder, cable puller, etc., are all acceptable topics about which to post whine threads.

[Rocket]

John I agree that it was a valid tactic in WWII and even now I guess you could say that fire and forget missiles are HO tactics

The thing I would like to do is get someone to think about how they just got HO and how to defeat that threat. You can't defeat it 100% of the time but you can make yourself a better fighter by trying to work out a good defense against it that will turn the situation into an offensive solution.

It is much easier to scream HOBAG or HO HO HO Merry Christmas etc etc.  If I can get just 5 people to look at a film and decide how I can do this differently, how I can win without him getting a shot on the merge then I didn't waste my time posting.

I lost all my files I had from when I played before.  This topic has been around since the fighter sim.  I had a nice article that went into depth on the HO, defense of the HO and how to take advantage of an HO opponent.  Maybe I will try to take the time to re-write an article on the subject again.  I was hoping that this post would generate some discussion on the HO and effectively defeating it.  

Don't forget, see your local, talented, and hard working trainer for some help defeating the HO

S!

Rocket

[humble]

I agree with Gunner with regard to many "HO's" actually being front quarter shots. Overall Rocket I think its a combination of things....1st we both happen to be "old school" so certain fundementals are pretty well ingrained. I honestly dont think I've been truely "HO'd" in years....now that excludes rolling out right into someone in a furball:).....

As you pointed out a HO is pretty simple to avoid and normally puts the "HOer" at a tremendous disadvantage if he actually tries to fight. The front quarter snap shot is however a different ball game. Every once in awhile somebody will pull lead on my opener and fire a golden BB, nothing more aggravating then watching a guy go tumbling away in an uncontrolled spin after betting the farm on a one timer that took your vertical slab off:furious

[bsdaddict]

Originally posted by Rocket
I lost all my files I had from when I played before.  This topic has been around since the fighter sim.  I had a nice article that went into depth on the HO, defense of the HO and how to take advantage of an HO opponent.  Maybe I will try to take the time to re-write an article on the subject again.  

if it was ever on the web at one point, chances are that article's archived...

[GunnerCAF]

If it was on the web, you can search for it here, you might find it.  This is a cool site:

Way Back Machine

Gunner

[Rocket]

Thanks guys I did find the old VMF-115 webpage, but all the stuff I had on it related to training doesn't load unfortunately.  I'll continue to try to track that down.


S!
Rocket

[Murdr]

Originally posted by SKJohn
I am currently reading one of the Osprey series of books that had the  CO's of different squads in Pacific Theater write up their suggestions and tactics for using fighters. (Can't remember the name of book - don't have it here w/me).

Well I can tell you that Tom McGuire suggested it in his Combat Tactics in the SW Pac.  Just remember that this was in the context of combat with Japaneese fighters, which were lightly constructed, and had very little cockpit armor.  The reason it was a good tactic is because everyone knew who was at the disadvantage in that situation, and it was highly probable that the Japaneese plane would break and evade when faced with such an attack.