Author Topic: F14 tomcat/Aircraft development  (Read 314 times)

Offline Hawco

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F14 tomcat/Aircraft development
« on: November 02, 2006, 11:25:56 AM »
Was watching the history channel last night, they had a very interesting piece on the F14 and how it was made etc. After learning so much about this plane and how good it is, It got me thinking as to why they would want to get rid of it.
Do aircraft have a certain shelf life ? How long does it take to actually make these things? what sort of factors decide when it's time to change planes and get another one?
After watching the program, I realized just how much I don't know about these things and would like to try and understand the whole development thing. What about computer parts ? How can they put the latest and greatest computers in these things when hardware is constantly changing?
My only experience with aircraft is jumping from them, mostly the Hercules and Chinook, So I know squat about all the above.

Offline Nilsen

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F14 tomcat/Aircraft development
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2006, 12:06:40 PM »
It was a nightmare to maintain... or so ive heard from folks here. Upgrading a plane that is so old with new stuff and to set up a productionline for the plane and all its spare parts etc is prolly super expensive.

It seems that the US needs attack planes more than fleet defenders too after the cold war ended and the axis of evil nations/evil doers and terrorists are the main target.

Offline Sox62

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F14 tomcat/Aircraft development
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2006, 12:49:01 PM »
An A-6 required two people.An F-14 requires a two person crew as well.

The F-18 does both jobs(although not as well imho) with a single person.

Offline AquaShrimp

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F14 tomcat/Aircraft development
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2006, 01:07:09 PM »
F-14 was requiring up to 50 hours of maintenance for each flight hour in the 1990s.  Pilots were claiming that something was breaking on *every* single catapault launch.  Usually not a mission critical piece of equipment, but sometimes it was.

Offline Mace2004

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Re: F14 tomcat/Aircraft development
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2006, 08:48:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hawco
Do aircraft have a certain shelf life?


Yes they do....usually.  You have corrosion and fatigue of the airplane.  Planes bend and sooner or later fatigue takes it's toll and you have to start replacing big expensive parts.  However, some planes can last almost indefinently if they're willing to put money into them.  Look at the B-52 for instance.  But the older they are the more expensive to rebuild and the harder it is to get parts.  On the other hand, lots of the newest planes will never last as long as the Tomcat because there is much more extensive use of composite materials and it's much harder to completely rebuild a composite part than it is to, say, fabricate a new wing spar out of metal.

Quote
Originally posted by Hawco
How long does it take to actually make these things?


Well, it sort of depends on what you mean.  If you're asking how long it would take to develop a new plane and get it flying you're talking years, even longer to get it flying operationally.  I saw both the F-22 and F-23 prototypes when they were still "black" programs and that was in 1985 or 86.  I first saw them fly in 1987.  The F-22 just went operational last year.  If you're talking about how long an existing production line takes to build a single plane like an F-14 you'd be talking anywhere from a few months to a year, depending on the production schedule and how many are needed.


Quote
Originally posted by Hawco
What sort of factors decide when it's time to change planes and get another one?


The top three factors are money, money and money.  Just kidding...sorta.  It was simpler in the past when airplanes were just mechanical devices.  Their performance was based simply on their physical construction so, in order to get a significant improvement you needed a whole new plane.  Nowadays, airplanes are as much their weapon system as their airframe.  Lots of older airframes are updated with new systems that give them far more capability than was dreamed of when they were first built.  Again, the B-52 is a prime example.  The F-14 was originally built as primarily an interceptor for fleet defense but, with system and engine upgrades it eventually became the Navy's best bomber in Afghanistan and Iraq.  As far as when does it make more sense to build a new airplane vice rebuilding and updating old ones? Well, the Navy has wrestled with that problem for years.  They invested far too much into the "Super" Hornet when the same money could have been used to build brand new Tomcats with better range, speed and payload.  On the other hand, when they decided they really did need a stealth airplane neither the Hornet or Tomcat would ever fit that bill so we have the F-35 coming.
 
Quote
Originally posted by Hawco
What about computer parts ? How can they put the latest and greatest computers in these things when hardware is constantly changing??


Now that is a great question but hardware changes at a much slower rate than computers.  It's hard to believe but the Commodore 64 had more computing power than the F-14A but even that tiny computer gave the airplane tremendous power for its time.  The F-14D had well over a 1,000 times the computing power of the F-14A.  More than hardware, it was actually the improved computers, digitial buses, and software that gave the D much more capability than the A.  Lots don't realize it but the development time for military hardware virtually guarantees that their computers will already be outdated (to the point of being unable to get parts) before the hardware is even deployed for the first time.  The military is doing lots to try to fix this but it takes time to develop a weapon and computers are improving at incredible rates so it's just the nature of the beast.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2006, 08:58:40 PM by Mace2004 »
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Offline troon

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Re: F14 tomcat/Aircraft development
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2006, 10:58:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hawco

Do aircraft have a certain shelf life ?  


Navy planes slowly fatigue over time due to the hard impact of carrier landings.

Offline Hawco

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F14 tomcat/Aircraft development
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2006, 10:21:01 AM »
what sort of generation of computers are in the F22/ Eurofighter given the long development times? I watched a program on the Tornado and couldn't belive my eyes when they were loading up the mission on what looked like a cassette tape, That's what got me thinking about Hardware etc
Very informative response Mace, Are you involved in Fast Jets in any capacity?

Offline Maverick

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F14 tomcat/Aircraft development
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2006, 10:25:06 AM »
All aircraft have metal fatigue over time. None are imune and the Navy aircraft obviously has a far rougher time on the landing gear and frame than the Airforce. All aircraft are also designed with a finite number of flight hours because of the stresses and strains of flight, particularly the fighters and attack aircraft of the services. They are built as tough as they can be withing weight and size limitations but they are not indestructable.
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