Author Topic: Loosing Trailing Enemys (Read 797 times)

DaChamp687 · « **on:** November 01, 2006, 09:46:23 PM »

I find it very hard to loose enemys I climb and do a half c and I can't seem to loose them but I can get behind them and shoot them and hit accurately. I haven't played this game that long and I usally fly La-7,Spits,or 109s and I have most of my sucsess killing with the La-7 and can't loose anybody with any of them. My knowledge on air combat I would say is pretty limited but I try everything I don any thing humanly possible and sometimes even crash while trying to loose them and I just cant get them off my six. any Help on tactics or trainning room would help alot.

SAS_KID · « **Reply #1 on:** November 01, 2006, 09:57:44 PM »

It's almost impossible to actually "Lose" someone since their are icons. But doing a split-s and diving away and then hopefully extending away from the enemy and running away is possible.(Split-S is a half roll and dive.) But what most people try to do is cause an overshoot which puts your plane on the 6 o clock of the plane behind you. There are many ways to do this most of which are hard to explain but must be taught to you. Try the training arena also try trainers.hitechcreations.com . I believe that is the trainer's web site I hope i got the URL right.

Mace2004 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 01, 2006, 11:08:59 PM »

You've asked a very good question and are asking for the answer to one of the toughest problems you'll run into. SAS Kid is absolutely right about the training arena and the training corps. There are a lot of variables that would take a very long time to explain and the trainers can go over the options at length, plus of course you get to practice it but I'll give you some ideas.

First, you need to know your capabilities vs your opponents. If you're in an Lgay and he's a Zeke then jink a bit to keep him from getting a good shot at you and just extend away since you have a major speed advantage. If the situation is reversed and you're in the Zeke you're not running anywhere but you can easily out turn him so slow down and turn to force an overshoot.

Second, what is your relative energy (E) state? Are you slow and he's diving in at Mach 3? If so, even the worst turning airplanes can force him to overshoot. What if you're fast and he's just a little faster? You could chop your throttle and slow down to increase the closure and try to force an overshoot. Lots of folks in AH put their throttle at max and leave it there the entire flight, they forget it's another aircraft control and should be used as much as the control stick. Many times "slow" is our friend so don't be afraid to chop the throttle particularly when you're being tailchased.

Third, timing is everything in ACM. If the guy is 1,000 yds out you aren't going to force the overshoot so don't do any break turns, he has too much time to react to your turn. Instead wait until he's committed to his attack and has significant closure before you break to force the overshoot. Also, lets say you've got an identical aircraft firmly attached to your backside at d400 co-speed and you just can't shake him. Do whatever you can to stay alive and hope for help. Staying alive means jinking and good jinking requires timing. Learn to fly while looking out your six with only an occasional look forward to clear the terrain or trees. Watch for him to shoot and than jink. Jink up and down, left and right. Mix them up. Maybe chop your throttle and get him real close, it's actually pretty hard to hit a jinking target when you're inside d200. You may run him out of bullets or survive long enough for help to arrive.

Home some of this helps.

trotter · « **Reply #3 on:** November 02, 2006, 12:32:00 AM »

mace2004 hit it right on the head. once you start to learn the differences between the planes you will realize that very often you can either outturn or extend from (euphemism for "run") a bogey on your six. For learning the differences between the planes, I recommend studying here http://www.gonzoville.com/charts/ or here http://members.shaw.ca/soda_p/models.htm

If you are in a situation where your plane cannot come up with any advantage, stay alive and head towards friendlies.

Remember, the Training Arena and its knowledgeable trainers are always willing to help.

Best of luck

moneyguy · « **Reply #4 on:** November 02, 2006, 04:07:46 PM »

netaces has some good stuff that may help you. and there's always the training arena. a lot of oldtimers go there and usually will help someone out if you ask.

uberhun · « **Reply #5 on:** November 02, 2006, 05:20:39 PM »

DaChamp,
All these recommendations are dead on bro.
Or you could use the secret weapon of the less scrupilous (sp)

............................. ............................. ............................
Yank your cable connection:rofl

SAS_KID · « **Reply #6 on:** November 02, 2006, 10:53:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mace2004
You've asked a very good question and are asking for the answer to one of the toughest problems you'll run into. SAS Kid is absolutely right about the training arena and the training corps. There are a lot of variables that would take a very long time to explain and the trainers can go over the options at length, plus of course you get to practice it but I'll give you some ideas.

First, you need to know your capabilities vs your opponents. If you're in an Lgay and he's a Zeke then jink a bit to keep him from getting a good shot at you and just extend away since you have a major speed advantage. If the situation is reversed and you're in the Zeke you're not running anywhere but you can easily out turn him so slow down and turn to force an overshoot.

Second, what is your relative energy (E) state? Are you slow and he's diving in at Mach 3? If so, even the worst turning airplanes can force him to overshoot. What if you're fast and he's just a little faster? You could chop your throttle and slow down to increase the closure and try to force an overshoot. Lots of folks in AH put their throttle at max and leave it there the entire flight, they forget it's another aircraft control and should be used as much as the control stick. Many times "slow" is our friend so don't be afraid to chop the throttle particularly when you're being tailchased.

Third, timing is everything in ACM. If the guy is 1,000 yds out you aren't going to force the overshoot so don't do any break turns, he has too much time to react to your turn. Instead wait until he's committed to his attack and has significant closure before you break to force the overshoot. Also, lets say you've got an identical aircraft firmly attached to your backside at d400 co-speed and you just can't shake him. Do whatever you can to stay alive and hope for help. Staying alive means jinking and good jinking requires timing. Learn to fly while looking out your six with only an occasional look forward to clear the terrain or trees. Watch for him to shoot and than jink. Jink up and down, left and right. Mix them up. Maybe chop your throttle and get him real close, it's actually pretty hard to hit a jinking target when you're inside d200. You may run him out of bullets or survive long enough for help to arrive.

Home some of this helps.

When you meen "jink" I hope you don't meen stick stir. Because when you do this it is actually very easy to hit since the plane is staying on the same axis point of which you just pour fire into and make yourself a nice explosion. In addition, your controls lock up from moving them to rapidly. I myself find that watching the enemies nose helps a lot. Say you are in a climbing turn and you watch him pull for the shot. Since to get the shot you must disappear under his nose, take advantage of this and:
1. Provide Negative G then turn around
2. Roll and go into a climbing descent
3. Increase your turn radius even tighter
4. Roll back the other way.
5. etc.....
Of course this is all tied to the timing of your actions. However, try making up some moves of your own in your own combinations which is what I do. In addition, be prepared to die A LOT so you can learn from your mistakes. Also, use Alt+R to record your fights to see what you did wrong and or right. Then go to the AH file and open up AH Filmviewer.

Mace2004 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 03, 2006, 11:00:34 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SAS_KID
When you meen "jink" I hope you don't meen stick stir.

Jink simply means to change your direction of flight. "Stick stirring" is just an AH phenomenom, and, for many reasons, doesn't (can't) occur in RL. I didn't go into exhaustive detail but "jinking" can be a very sophisticated maneuver related to timing. Your first goal is to move the airplane out of a target solution so he can't gun your brains out. Beyond that, proper jinking can actually go a long ways towards reversing the situation. Remember that the adversary is trying to get a guns solution on you. Lets say you're in a slight right turn giving left to right movement relative to him, he needs to point his nose to your right for lead. Now, you roll left and reverse to a slight left turn and he sees right to left relative movement so has to move his nose from your right, past you to your left. In other words, his maneuvers are in response to yours (his turn occurs a couple of seconds after yours) and his manuevers are larger than yours. As soon as he gets his nose to the left for lead, you go back right, etc., etc. Same can be done in up/down jinks. Also, lets say you're in a 190 vs a Typhoon. He can stay with you but only in speed. The 190 can easily outroll the Typhoon, so the 190 can reverse several times in a row and completely throw the Typhoon out of synch where he's going left and the 190's going right. Combine this with chopping your throttle and you've probably just forced the Typhoon to overshoot since he's been concentrating on nose position and probably still has his throttle up.

SAS_KID · « **Reply #8 on:** November 03, 2006, 07:31:20 PM »

Ok good when i here jink in different directions i can usually see someone ramming their stick in all directions. When you do the left to right "jink" your doing a scissor which with proper throttle management can lead to an overshoot and him having to "jink"

stantond · « **Reply #9 on:** November 04, 2006, 07:51:43 AM »

Find friendlies. Fly towards them. When within 2-3k of friendlies, chop throttle, break (left or right) and dive. Call out on radio, low nme on the deck.

You can usually shake all but one that way. Next is where TA time is useful when you chop throttle and bleed speed because you have to get the pursuer to either overshoot or bleed speed to keep on your six. With friendlies around a low slow nme will usually get killed before you do. Sometimes that doesn't happen and that's when low speed handling is important.

No guarantees, and the element of surprise is critical. The friendlies, if it's an experienced pilot, will distract them. If its not an experienced pilot bleeding speed and forcing an overshoot works. Filming your fights helps understand what happened in the fight.

Regards,

Malta

pluck · « **Reply #10 on:** November 04, 2006, 11:10:08 PM »

first try not to let them on your six:) one simple manuever which may help is just simple scissoring. i try to time so that when he is pulling lead for a shot, you will roll and turn the other way. keep him out of phase, when he is adjusting to your position, you roll towards the other. adjust throttle, maybe reduce hoping for a tighter turn and forcing an overshoot. these flat turns start of small at first, and the further out of phase the attacker gets, the larger your turns will become. flat scissoring is one of the more basic acms, but incorporates quite a few skills which you can build on such as E management, fighting looking back at nme, etc. my advice, especially to a new player would be to worry less about extending and living and focus on trying to shake someone off. you will die alot, but every death can be positive if you can try to take something away from it and people will acknowledge your efforts. start simple first, effective simple manuevers are much more effective than poorly executed advanced manuevers, but you will need them all eventually:) there is no magic bullet, different situations call on different things, i would say try to find something that works for you and take one thing at a time. trainers will probably make learning easier and faster, and will be able to answear your questions well with actually examples. just my advice, good luck:)

DaChamp687 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 05, 2006, 03:58:32 PM »

Is there anyway for me to show my flights to someone willing to give me pointers or strategic tips.

zorstorer · « **Reply #12 on:** November 05, 2006, 04:43:55 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DaChamp687
Is there anyway for me to show my flights to someone willing to give me pointers or strategic tips.

alt r is the default for turing your film recorder on. You will see a small red R in the upper left of your screen. When done filmilng just hit alt r again to stop it. they are saved in your aces high directory.

Schatzi · « **Reply #13 on:** November 05, 2006, 06:30:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DaChamp687
Is there anyway for me to show my flights to someone willing to give me pointers or strategic tips.

As Zorstorer said: ALT R to start/stop filming fights in game. The recorded films are saved as film##.ahf files in your game install films (by default thats C:/HTC/Aces High II/Films) folder. You can view those with the film viewer that comes with the game.

Some quick notes on the film viewer. Let me know if you have any troubles.

START > PROGRAMS > Aces High II > Aces High II Film Viewer.

After the first time running it, AHF files are automatically associated with the viewer and you can double click a film to open it. One side note though: You cannot start the viewer while the game is open.

To view the films, I usually do so in External View, with Trails, Icons and Recorded Views checked. This gives you a good overview of what happened and who pulled which move. Switching to Internal will give you an idea on how a certain move looks from the inside of the cockpit. Note that you can adjust your head positions in the viewer just like you do in game (arrow keys, page up/down, F10 to save) and that you can also (if youre not using recorded views) use the numpad to look around.
Double clicking a name on the list to the right will let you view the film from another plane. Sometimes its useful to go to the opponents plane and watch yourself. Dont use recorded views if you do that, as those are always *your* views (where you looked to), not the opponent.

If you want me to review and analyse your films, post them here (youll need a a server to host them - http://www.picturehangar.com for small files.) If you want to, you can also send them Schatzi @ flyaceshigh.com. (You can cut file size by selecting important time frame in the viever).