Author Topic: What happens with Mk108?  (Read 1193 times)

Offline Reynolds

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What happens with Mk108?
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2006, 04:37:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
You only get kills that way because you're moving 300mph in the opposite direction. Thus the plane running into them at 310mph following your is closing the distance. Your bullets are only traveling about 600-800 yards before they hit the aircraft, but the moment you fire it you keep moving on, and the enemy plane moves in, so you get hits at further distance. The rounds themselves really aren't reliable at those ranges.

Consider the 50cals when you're in one fighter chasing another. Even if the other guy flies straight, at 1k your chances of hitting him (other than 1 random hit sprite) are almost zero.


eh... win somw lose some :D

Offline Apeking

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What happens with Mk108?
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2006, 06:27:22 PM »
"Zorstorer: That only applies to solid rounds, perhaps just MGs. We're talking cannon rounds. Cannon tracers are no less explosive, they're just coated."

Tony Williams can probably answer this in double-quick time (pause) but that doesn't sound right. I'm sure that cannon and tank gun tracer rounds have a glowing compound in the base that ignites when the round is fired; it seems implausible that the glow would come from a coating.

Offline Krusty

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What happens with Mk108?
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2006, 10:12:30 PM »
Are you sure it's coated on the base? Anyways I've seen some photos of WW2 era cannon shells and some of them look like they have something "painted" onto them.

If it's on the base, well it's still "coated" -- just in a place different from where I thought. That won't change the explosive power, methinks.

Offline zorstorer

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What happens with Mk108?
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2006, 10:23:21 PM »
At least for the 25mm rounds I would fire while in the Army from the M2A2 Bradley, that if they landed short enough they looked like a little magnesium flare until they burned out.  I am fairly sure that the tracer substance was in a small hollow at the rear of the projectile.  Maybe the coating you saw was lubrication for the round/gun?  Even the 25mm rounds we used were coated with a nasty, sticky lubricant/storage medium.  They are even now doing research into using fresnel lenses and led lights for the "tracer" portion.

Offline Apeking

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What happens with Mk108?
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2006, 11:34:31 AM »
"Are you sure it's coated on the base? Anyways I've seen some photos of WW2 era cannon shells and some of them look like they have something "painted" onto them."

Perhaps the paint was just for identification, or perhaps you are mistaken. Nonetheless, I've found a page here that goes into some detail about an experiment with "external tracer" from 1975. It doesn't seem to have been a successful experiment:

"As a preliminary study of the utility of one concept of 'external tracer', five types of chemically coated ball ammunition (which, when fired, left visible vapor trails to mark projectile trajectory) were compared with 7.62mm M62 tracer, 5.56mm M196 tracer and 7.62mm ball ammunition on two measures of observation. Twenty infantrymen reported after each of 80 single rounds whether tracer was detected and which of three targets 400 meters downrange was engaged. Standard tracers (M62 and M196) were associated with substantially more accuracy in ammunition target identification than external tracers. Only when observers in daylight were located directly behind the weapon firing were they able to detect external tracer with an accuracy approaching that of standard tracer."

Sadly there are no pictures. The tracer is said to leave "vapor trails", which is American for "vapour trails". I imagine there would have been several practical difficulties related to the handling of these rounds. I can picture the soldiers licking them to get high. There is a similar patent from 2006 here, although the concept involves flourescent chemicals. I quote:

"the light-emitting chemical comprises a mixture of a first chemlucent chemical and a second chemlucent chemical, wherein the first chemlucent chemical is contained in a plurality of glass vials which are restrained by a spider and emplaced in a bag."

There is mention here of anti-balloon bullets from WW1:

"Fighters were ordered to attack balloons as soon as, and wherever, they appeared. At the time highly flammable hydrogen gas was used to inflate the balloons, so they were very vulnerable to tracer bullets coated with flammable phosphorus."

Assuming that this article is correct, and that the bullets really were coated with phosphorous, I imagine the bullets would have been extremely hard to handle and work with. It leads me to this short page about a "Pomeroy bullet ", which amuses me because I share that man's surname.

Plastic BB gun tracers, as far as I know, are made of a flourescent material that is lit by a strobe light as the bullets leave the barrel; perhaps with modern polymers this concept could be expanded to small arms ammunition, although the polymer would have to be biodegradable.

Living as I do in the UK this is all theory. I own an air rifle but I have never heard of air rifle tracer pellets.

This bulletin board should have a button people can press that lights up a light in Tony Williams' mansion so that he can dive in an write five hundred interesting words on a given topic.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2006, 12:04:36 PM by Apeking »

Offline Zanth

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What happens with Mk108?
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2006, 02:19:15 PM »