BOP's squad night analysis / AAR

[hubsonfire]

Originally posted by calan
I've been playing almost a year, but I'm mostly clueless as to the strat side of the game... (where are the targets, the effects of taking them out, etc.).

Is this information (the game play part of it... not the technical descriptions in the help) explained anywhere?

Someone said it previously...  most newer players (1 year or less) probably don't even know that this side of AH exists.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/map.html#ss

This is under the Support/Help menus on the homepage. It also appears in the downloadable Help files, but I'm not sure where they're linked anymore.
Some of the info may be outdated, but the basics are unchanged, AFAIK.

And I see I was incorrect on a few things, but anyway, it's explained better (and accurately ) in the link.

[calan]

I'd seen that before hub, but nothing as far as how to actually "play" the strat angle of the game.

Where are these targets located on the maps?  What Icons?  When and how should they be attacked?  etc etc

[hubsonfire]

Simplistic example. Kill the city, the factories in that zone rebuild much slower. If you hit them next, the strats on the fields in that zone rebuild much slower as well. Hit them next. Now, in this particular zone, the city and factories are all at 0%. Convoys, barges, and or trains in this zone are now having 0 effect.  Plus, the guys blowing all this **** up are going to run out of targets, and they'll probably go after your convoys next, and start hunting resupply goons.

Without the convoys, and with no barracks intact on any fields in that area, there are no troops, no vehicle supplies, no field supplies... no way to restore the strats on the field without flying them in from the next zone. Long flights in a C47 through an active area rife with enemies (in situations like this, normally sadists like myself, letting  the goon get close enough to his destination to see it, then shooting him down).

End result for the red people- if you're trying to run some sort of attack out of this zone, you're SOL. You have planes, guns, and gas, but no troops, no radar at the fields, no bombs, no rockets, can't see much, and can't resupply anything to bring it back up faster. Your fields have been porked completely, and you might as well go make a sandwich, or get used to furballing, because the offensive part of the war, for you, is over for 2 hours.

On your clipboard map, rightclick, and select Legend from the pulldown menu. This will show you all the symbols of the various components and factories, and then it's just a matter of spotting them on the map. They vary somewhat, but tend to be evenly distributed across most maps, I think. I haven't attacked a factory in ages, because the choo choo of doom doesn't like me.

As to timing and whatnot, I suppose it depends more on what you're trying to accomplish. A complete and total porking takes quite a bit of coordination, and a lot of ord on each target. Unless you've got a helluva lotta people, you're playing whackamole. Get one target down, and another comes back up, etc etc.

That help any?

[Nomak]

Originally posted by calan
I've been playing almost a year, but I'm mostly clueless as to the strat side of the game... (where are the targets, the effects of taking them out, etc.).

Is this information (the game play part of it... not the technical descriptions in the help) explained anywhere?

Someone said it previously...  most newer players (1 year or less) probably don't even know that this side of AH exists.

I have been here since '01

I don't know that side of AH exists.

Dave

[Zanth]

Originally posted by calan
I've been playing almost a year, but I'm mostly clueless as to the strat side of the game... (where are the targets, the effects of taking them out, etc.).

Is this information (the game play part of it... not the technical descriptions in the help) explained anywhere?

Someone said it previously...  most newer players (1 year or less) probably don't even know that this side of AH exists.

_____________________________ _______________
Overall it is thus:

Capitol - Strat - Bases

This is all you need know.  

Captitol supplies - Strat (factories) which then supplies - Bases

Step 1: Hit Capitol.

Step 2: Hit Factory

Step 3: Hit Fuel/Ammo/or Troops on individual bases = they stay dead longer.  These base objects with undamaged resupply (see step 1and step 2 above) will rebuild in 15 minutes.  

BONUS: IF you have done Step 1 and Step 2 these things stay dead a heck of a lot longer, though I have never done the math - it is hours.

_____________________________ _______________

If your eyes have not yet glassed over read the HTC file again with this knowledge and a light bulb might go on.

HQ is confusing but this affects it the same way.  Radar on bases is not the same thing as HQ, but you have figured that out by not.

[Zwerg]

Originally posted by Simaril
In fairness, its hard to argue for more strat when we arent using what is there already. I mean, why take the time and invest the money to make marshalling yards when no one bothers to kill the trains now?

How much easier would captures be if somebody ran the train track to kill the train before it got in?

I would bet under 1% of people have ANY idea that they can keep buildings down by killing that supply route. How often have you heard, "hurry hurry, get the goon in....buildings are going to  pop soon!" -- but have you EVER seen a team interdict the trains/barges?


BTW..does anyone know if killing the bridges on the train route actually stops them from passing? Or, does killing the engine stop the cars from moving?

That's because you can't.
And all in all the downtime of town buildings is the least of the problems in an attempt to capture a field.

Helpfiles - Strategic targets
Target: Town building
Destroy with: 1 250 lb
Downtime: 45 mins
Effect: Kills town building to allow for field capture
Supplier: N/A   
Can be resupplied: No

[zorstorer]

I am very happy the way this thread is going a huge to the folks willing to discuss without the usual bashing.

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Zwerg
That's because you can't.
And all in all the downtime of town buildings is the least of the problems in an attempt to capture a field.

Helpfiles - Strategic targets
Target: Town building
Destroy with: 1 250 lb
Downtime: 45 mins
Effect: Kills town building to allow for field capture
Supplier: N/A   
Can be resupplied: No

Try again:

Also from the help files:


Damaged field and city objects can be rebuilt with the successful delivery of supplies.  Conceptually, the objects are being resupplied but visually they are being rebuilt.  This is done by reducing the downtime by 30 minutes depending on how much of the supplies reach the destination.  If only half of the supplies reach the destination, the downtime is decreased by 15 minutes.

The table you're looking at refers to using player delivered supplies to change downtimes. The computer driven supplies (barges, trains, and truck convoys) work independently of that.

Also, think about it -- when you do a capture, the town buildings stay down 15 minutes, not 45. Ask around if you're not sure....I've never seen, nor heard, of buildings staying down for 3/4 hour. The 15 minutes we actually see is the mathematical outcome of the 45 minute default, reduced by one delivery of the every 10 minute automatic supply system.

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Flayed1
Tonight 6 of us uped off the south island in MW on uterus or what ever the name is and flew B-17's allllllll the way to rook strat in the NE corner of the map reaching 28K  

 Rook strat down to.....

 City-61%
 Ammo-69%
 Radar-67%
 Troops-31%
 AAA-72%

we only lost a few planes and were even complimented on our formation

 Took a long time though.

Did your 6 planes hit all those centers, or were some down already?


If you hit all those strats, here's something to think about. There is a much greater benefit to essentially completely wiping out the city and one other strat factory, than there is to denting a whole bunch of them. Thats because (according to help files) there is a definite 50% threshold for reducing supply effects, and an implied steeply curved increment in effects. (Someplace in there I read that when the source is damaged 50%, only one of the 6 car supply delivery carries actual supplies...)

What that means is that a 69% damaged city will deliver supplies to its troop factory every 10 minutes, and that each train will reduce the troop factory down time by, say, 15 minutes (instead of the usual 30). The down times start at 3 hours, so normal function will be restored in about 1.25 hours. (That's 7 deliveries for 1.75 hours plus the passage of 1.25 hours real time.)

On the other hand, if you cut the supply far enough it would be the baseline 3 hours till troop training is back up, or it would require an active resupply effort like folks do for the HQ.



The city is KEY, because its damage multiplies effects on everything else (including the HQ). Once you've hit the city, your damage to troops training strat has much more meaning...with the same math we talked about now being applied to troop downtimes on individual fields. And again, you see MUCH more real life effect by smashing the strat than you do by denting it.





SO I'd suggest you run those 6 man sorties against only troop factory and the city. 3 buffs per strat ought to leave them more or less levelled, and that will make any porking you do FAR more effective for the rest of the night.

[Donzo]

Originally posted by zorstorer
I am very happy the way this thread is going a huge to the folks willing to discuss without the usual bashing.

I second that

[Simaril]

Originally posted by zorstorer
I am very happy the way this thread is going a huge to the folks willing to discuss without the usual bashing.

I really dont think that most A2A guys have anything against capturing bases -- I know I don't!

Lameness is a pain -- whether its stupidity (taking down hangars without any other plan, then complaining that no one tried to take the base); griefing; or deliberate milk running (avioding any fight at all, and only attacking the undefended).

But if the strat guys are willing to intelligently fight, there's no reason our interests cant intersect with good results!

[thndregg]

Whenever I post a bomber/attack mission, there has to be a long term effect or goal behind it, and it isn't for ruining good furballs. I like those kinds of missions to make sense to people before I post them, and if someone comes up with a better idea, which has often been the case, I adjust the mission parameters to accomidate.

P.S.

to those that participated in and fought against last night's unusual Ki67 bomber/Ki84 escort run. I was very suprised at the high turnout for that mission. Great job!

[Flayed1]

Originally posted by Simaril
Did your 6 planes hit all those centers, or were some down already?


If you hit all those strats, here's something to think about. There is a much greater benefit to essentially completely wiping out the city and one other strat factory, than there is to denting a whole bunch of them. Thats because (according to help files) there is a definite 50% threshold for reducing supply effects, and an implied steeply curved increment in effects. (Someplace in there I read that when the source is damaged 50%, only one of the 6 car supply delivery carries actual supplies...)

What that means is that a 69% damaged city will deliver supplies to its troop factory every 10 minutes, and that each train will reduce the troop factory down time by, say, 15 minutes (instead of the usual 30). The down times start at 3 hours, so normal function will be restored in about 1.25 hours. (That's 7 deliveries for 1.75 hours plus the passage of 1.25 hours real time.)

On the other hand, if you cut the supply far enough it would be the baseline 3 hours till troop training is back up, or it would require an active resupply effort like folks do for the HQ.



The city is KEY, because its damage multiplies effects on everything else (including the HQ). Once you've hit the city, your damage to troops training strat has much more meaning...with the same math we talked about now being applied to troop downtimes on individual fields. And again, you see MUCH more real life effect by smashing the strat than you do by denting it.





SO I'd suggest you run those 6 man sorties against only troop factory and the city. 3 buffs per strat ought to leave them more or less levelled, and that will make any porking you do FAR more effective for the rest of the night.

  Yes we hit all of it..  We had origanally intended just to hit city and troops but the plan morphed as we went along   I do see your point though and hope HT responds to your thread on this subject.

[Zwerg]

Originally posted by Simaril
Try again:

"Damaged field and city objects can be rebuilt"



Also, think about it -- when you do a capture, the town buildings stay down 15 minutes, not 45. Ask around if you're not sure....I've never seen, nor heard, of buildings staying down for 3/4 hour. The 15 minutes we actually see is the mathematical outcome of the 45 minute default, reduced by one delivery of the every 10 minute automatic supply system.

Town and City are not the same.

Concerning the downtime of town buildings: I never verified with a clock but I think they stay down much longer than 15 minutes.

[Flayed1]

Yes town buildings stay down much longer than 15 min..   I think the 45 is correct. from all to base captures we've done.