Author Topic: 737-Legacy collision in Brazil (Read 770 times)

Rolex · « **Reply #15 on:** October 05, 2006, 08:08:17 PM »

It just seems bizarre to me that the basic, international altitude/heading rule was not being followed, unless there is a local Brazilian rule that supercedes it? Just like the 40 degree difference in runway heading in the recent Kentucky crash, these things are about as fundamental as you can get.

Toad · « **Reply #16 on:** October 05, 2006, 08:15:16 PM »

I sorta just tuned in to this.

The link says

Quote

The Brazilian newspaper O Globo reported on Tuesday that the Legacy, which was carrying seven Americans, disobeyed a control tower order to descend to a lower altitude before coming into contact with Gol airlines Flight 1907.

It said the Legacy flew at 37,000 feet (11,300 meters) to the capital Brasilia, but then ignored an order to descend to 36,000 (11,000 meters) feet to continue its flight to the Amazon city of Manaus.

Brings up a few questions. One, were they in radio contact with the "control tower" (at 37K? Should be ARTCC but sometimes in SA the functions are combined)?

If they were in radio contact and were directed to descend, did they acknowledge the transmission? IE: Did they get the message?

If they were NOT in radio contact, I would assume the route altitudes are on the chart and the chart would have shown the alt change at Brasilia for the leg to Manaus.

In short, before I start blaming folks, I'd just like to know a little more.

As one who has flown SA routes, it's not as easy..by far... as flying CONUS or even Europe. There are language problems (accents primarily) and, in general, there's a lot more you get off the charts than via radio. Ya gotta pay very close attention to both radios and charts.

Chairboy · « **Reply #17 on:** November 24, 2006, 01:02:00 PM »

New info: http://ntsb.gov/Pressrel/2006/061122a.htm

They were at an assigned altitude (no instructions to descend like someone said earlier), but being tracked by primary return because their transponder was not on.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #18 on:** November 24, 2006, 01:23:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lukster
Two separate but integrated systems. Primary radar uses reflected energy to paint the target while secondary sends a query to which the transponder replies with a code and altitude. I was an ATC radar tech in the USAF.

Yup what he said.

ATC radar tech in USMC (ASR-8/GPN-27 and FPN-63)

lukster · « **Reply #19 on:** November 24, 2006, 03:05:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gunslinger
Yup what he said.

ATC radar tech in USMC (ASR-8/GPN-27 and FPN-63)

I thot I remembered you saying that a while back Gun. I worked everything from tube type FPN-47 ASR, FPN-16 through the ASR-9, GPN-22 and NEXRAD. They combined ATC, AC&W, and Weather radar into one field a couple of years before I retired. BTW, our ASR-8 was classifed as a GPN-25, yours probably kept the klystron while ours replaced it with a magnetron.

It's been over 10 years, I got the designations mixed up. The GPN-20 has/had the magnetron while the GPN-25 kept the klystrons like those of the FAA. Think the AF had only 2 GPN-25s, both in nevada.

LePaul · « **Reply #20 on:** November 24, 2006, 04:08:17 PM »

My best friend is an American Airlines pilot, one of the pilots in the Legacy is his roomate. They all chip in for rent at a "crash pad"/apartment in NYC.

I've been following this iten on Aero News for a while. The directions from controllers over rule a flight plan. From what Ive seen, the controllers put these plans on similar altitudes and, well, you see the result.

The Investigation is frustrating. They wont let the pilots go home. They also continue to try to blame these guys for everything, even when evidence from the military appears to show a different picture than the investigation is.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #21 on:** November 24, 2006, 06:40:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lukster
I thot I remembered you saying that a while back Gun. I worked everything from tube type FPN-47 ASR, FPN-16 through the ASR-9, GPN-22 and NEXRAD. They combined ATC, AC&W, and Weather radar into one field a couple of years before I retired. BTW, our ASR-8 was classifed as a GPN-25, yours probably kept the klystron while ours replaced it with a magnetron.

It's been over 10 years, I got the designations mixed up. The GPN-20 has/had the magnetron while the GPN-25 kept the klystrons like those of the FAA. Think the AF had only 2 GPN-25s, both in nevada.

Yup it's been about that long for me too. I'm pretty sure it was the GPN-27, I know it wasn't the GPN-25 but I'm also thinking it might have been the 30. We dumb jarheads just called it the ASR-8. I can't remember wether it had maggies in them or klystron. I'm pretty sure the ASR8 had klystrons, I assisted in changing one out once and we ended up cracking the clear plexy glass we had over the oil tank. OIL EVERYWHERE!

When I left they where discussing plans on an upgrade to the DSR system. All digital with a unix based network in the IFR room. I would have loved to be there when they ripped out the OJ and them heavy bellybutton OD-152A/T displays.