Author Topic: Question about Mach Numbers  (Read 1315 times)

Offline JB88

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10980
Question about Mach Numbers
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2006, 09:38:37 PM »
which hat button fires the whoopie bombs?
this thread is doomed.
www.augustbach.com  

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline calan

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 169
Question about Mach Numbers
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2006, 10:29:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
which hat button fires the whoopie bombs?


dunno... haven't learned that yet   :)

Offline Billy Joe Bob

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 470
Question about Mach Numbers
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2006, 01:08:48 AM »
i broke the sound barrier in a 262 WITH wings!

45 degree dive down 20 k or something like that and 247 (whatevers) of wind behind me! .99, .98, .99, 1.0, 1.1,0 zero you say???? A mountain :rofl

Offline Panman

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 128
Question about Mach Numbers
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2006, 02:43:59 AM »
:O

Offline Messiah

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 927
      • http://www.theblueknights.com
Question about Mach Numbers
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2006, 02:51:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB88



lol
Messiah(The O.G.)
The Blue Knights

Offline bozon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6037
Question about Mach Numbers
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2006, 06:56:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by calan
From wikipedia:

*****************

In general, the speed of sound c is given by


 
where

C is a coefficient of stiffness
p is the density

Thus the speed of sound increases with the stiffness of the material, and decreases with the density. For general equations of state, if classical mechanics is used, the speed of sound c is given by


 
where differentiation is taken with respect to adiabatic change.

*****************

I'll agree to disagree  :)

only that p/ro ~ T and so c~sqrt(T).

The speed of sound may weakly depends on the density through change in mean molecular weight (change of chemical composition) or if the adiabatic polytrope (power relation between density and pressure for adiabatic compression) changes.
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline Overlag

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3888
Question about Mach Numbers
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2006, 07:43:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by dtango
Traveler:

The me-262 is not supersonic.  I think that's your point of confusion with this.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs


depends.... ive "broke" 1.12mach i think it was..... however there was a big bang a few seconds later as i crashed into the ground straight down....lol


on another note to hitech.

i was chasing a con yesterday in my 262 and unknown to me he was AFK, on auto climb. a 109k.... my 262 stopped climbing at almost exactly the service ceiling of 37565ft. However for some reason the 109k was at 44k when i broke off... a bit odd (its ceiling is 41k).


anyway on my decent i got upto 0.96mach, but theres no way id push it further than that (it was already almost totally out of control).... try it in offline mode.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2006, 07:48:37 AM by Overlag »
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
This post has a Krusty rating of 37

Offline dtango

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1702
Question about Mach Numbers
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2006, 08:03:34 AM »
Sorry fellas.  I was being obtuse about the me262 being non-supersonic.  

In level-flight, max-top speed of the 262 isn't above mach 1 meaning without the help of gravity the 262 on it's own power can't reach or break the speed of sound.  

That's the classic definition of being supersonic.  Otherwise we could call different planes supersonic including the P-47 or the P-51 that I believe have recorded hit or exceeded mach 1 in dives.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
Tango / Tango412 412th FS Braunco Mustangs
"At times it seems like people think they can chuck bunch of anecdotes into some converter which comes up with the flight model." (Wmaker)

Offline john9001

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9453
Question about Mach Numbers
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2006, 08:47:52 AM »
yeah but , what is the air speed of a unladen swallow?

Offline dtango

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1702
Question about Mach Numbers
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2006, 09:46:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
yeah but , what is the air speed of a unladen swallow?


African or European?  :D

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
Tango / Tango412 412th FS Braunco Mustangs
"At times it seems like people think they can chuck bunch of anecdotes into some converter which comes up with the flight model." (Wmaker)

Offline NCLawman

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 442
Question about Mach Numbers
« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2006, 11:13:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by dtango
African or European?  :D

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs


Dtango, you beat me to it. :D
Jeff / NCLawMan (in-game)


Those who contribute the least to society, expect the most from it.

Light travels faster than sound.  This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Offline dtango

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1702
Question about Mach Numbers
« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2006, 11:37:42 AM »
LOL - i love that movie!

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
Tango / Tango412 412th FS Braunco Mustangs
"At times it seems like people think they can chuck bunch of anecdotes into some converter which comes up with the flight model." (Wmaker)

Offline hitech

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12339
      • http://www.hitechcreations.com
Question about Mach Numbers
« Reply #42 on: November 23, 2006, 12:04:36 PM »
Traveler: FPS = Feet per sec. have no idea why you think it would relate to any thing else.

I have no idea where you went wrong on your calculations.

But did a real quick test of the e6b with a p51.

300 mph 200 Ft showed  mach  0.39
300 mph 25k Ft showed mach  0.43

So now if you think my speed of sound table is incorrect please show your work and why.

HiTech

Offline Brooke

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15475
      • http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/
Question about Mach Numbers
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2006, 08:01:20 PM »
I think a lot of you guys are mixing up m/s for mph or C for deg. F or both.

For example, applying the formula at sea level with Traveler's data:

Quote
Originally posted by Traveler

When I tested the 262 at see level it yielded a Mach of .67 for a true airspeed of 505 mph.  That translated to an outside air temp at see level of -24 F.  What I should have gotten was a air temp of 58 F.


.67 Mach at 505 mph means the E6B is thinking speed of sound is 754 mph.  That's 337 m/s.  Using the formula, that would give sea level temperature of (337 - 331.5)/0.6 = 9.2 C, which is 49 deg. F -- reasonably close given that the formula is an approximation and that the table likely uses more-accurate data.

Offline Brooke

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15475
      • http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/
Question about Mach Numbers
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2006, 08:11:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by dtango
Otherwise we could call different planes supersonic including the P-47 or the P-51 that I believe have recorded hit or exceeded mach 1 in dives.


In WWII there were prop planes that, by looking at the indicated speed on their airspeed indicators and correcting to true airspeed, indicated that they were going past Mach 1.  I think, though, that the pitot-tube-based airspeed indicators of WWII became inaccurate as they approached Mach 1 in ways that were not corrected by the standard correction tables and that the aircraft were thus not actually travelling at Mach 1 or higher.

I think I remember reading that people have done some research that shows that the WWII prop fighters could not have gone faster than Mach 1, even in a vertical dive with full power from 45,000 ft straight down.  The airframes and propellers created too much drag at higher speeds for the terminal velocity to get that high.

Airflow over the wings, though (airflow over the top of the wing is faster than true airspeed of the aircraft), and tip speed of the propellors did become supersonic at high enough speeds in dives.  The supersonic airflow over wings is the cause of compressibility for WWII fighters and was worse for wings with thick cord (faster air over the top), like the P-38, than for those with thinner cord (like the P-51).  Thick-cord wings hit compressibility at lower speeds than thin-cord wings.