.357 revolver or .45 pistol?

[Maverick]

Originally posted by 2Slow
The 357 was designed to penetrate vehicle glass and door panels way back before there was a 38 Special.

You might want to rethink the last part of this statement. The .357 was developed from the .38 special.

[CavemanJ]

I'd use the 1911 in .45ACP in all those situations except c, for which it's either/or.

I owned both a Colt Trooper .357mag and a Colt 1911A1 GoldCup in .45ACP, and the 1911 felt better in my hand and more comfortable to carry.

[Mr No Name]

Originally posted by BMnot
.44 magnum.

That's me! My S&W model 29!

[Airscrew]

Originally posted by 2Slow
The 357 was designed to penetrate vehicle glass and door panels way back before there was a 38 Special.

Originally posted by Maverick
You might want to rethink the last part of this statement. The .357 was developed from the .38 special.

2Slow, just to save you some time

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.357_Magnum

The .357 Magnum revolver cartridge was created by Elmer Keith, Phillip Sharpe and the firearms manufacturer Smith & Wesson. Based upon their earlier .38 Special revolver cartridge, the .357 Magnum cartridge was introduced in 1934 and its use has since become widespread.



The .357 Magnum was developed over a period of time in the early to mid-1930's in a direct response to Colt's .38 Super Automatic. At the time the .38 Super Automatic was the only pistol cartridge capable of defeating automobile cover and the early bulletproof vests that were just then beginning to emerge in the post-World War I "Gangster Era". Tests at the time revealed that those early vests defeated any handgun cartridge traveling at less than ~1000 fps. Colt's .38 Super Automatic just edged over that velocity and was able to penetrate car doors and vests that bootleggers, and "gangsters" were employing as cover.

To settle the score, and reassert itself as the leading law enforcement armament provider, Smith and Wesson developed the .357 Magnum. The new round was developed out of their existing .38 Special round, by adding additional powder, and ultimately by extending the case by 1/8th of an inch. The case extension was more a matter of safety than of necessity. Since the .38 Special and the new .357 Magnum cartridges were identical in physical attributes, it was possible to load a .357 Magnum cartridge in a .38 Special revolver, with potentially disastrous results. Extending the case slightly made it impossible to accidentally chamber the magnum power round in the smaller gun.

[lazs2]

dago.. I allready own a better 45 than you do.  I shoot it a lot.   It is a good little gun with a good trigger but...

It shoots a weak, slow round and it throws brass all over the place and won't shoot ammo unless it is in a very narrow range of energy.

.357 is better for most things but...

I do like the 44 mag...  it is a great round.  accurate, powerful, cheap to reload and easy... the brass is ten times better than any 45 brass I have seen and... I don't have to play pick up brass all the time.  You can load it 1,000 fps with 180 grain slugs  or 1,300 fps with 250 grain slugs.   You can load shot shells that actually have enough shot to kill a snake..  do that with a 45 and your auto becomes a really bad single shot.

I like the 45.. for me, the brass is free... have 14,000 once fired cases.  I still have to pick up the brass except at the range.  Only a slob leaves it laying all over the outdoors.

The 44 is about the best for me.. it is the limit of what a light gun will handle for me...  even I was not happy firing a 44 in the new scandium 22 oz smith tho...  

I like the way a 1911 is flat for carry but... if I was gonna carry anything that I could only pick one... I would go with the 340 pd in .357  a 12 oz 357 that fits in the front pocket of anything you are wearing and looks about like you have a cell phone in your pocket if at all... weighs about the same too.   recoil is horrendous tho.

Lots of shotguns and rifles are better for everything mentioned than handguns but... if I only had the choice of handguns..

44 mag
.357 mag
22
45

in that order.

[lazs2]

oh.. with the .357 you can load 38 spl brass to .357 levels by simply seating the bullet 1/8" less after loading to .357 levels.   end up with a round with the same overall length as a .357 and... same pressures.

I did this way back when and .357 brass was hard to come by.

.357 and 45 are great calibers it's just that the 44 is way better in every way.

lazs

[porkfrog]

the main question you have to ask yourself is what your PRIMARY use of the gun will be. trying to get a "do everything" gun is difficult, not impossible, but difficult. while both of your choices are excellent ones, you really need to examine how/why/where/when you will carry it, and if you are considering getting a concealed carry license.

having said this, the 1911 .45 is considered by many as being the greatest handgun of all time, but you need to go with what you like best based on the above questions. i myself carry ( i have my concealed carry permit for 5 states, and am currently processing for California, yes California.) a Glock27 in 40cal. It is the subcompact concealed carry version of the G23. The .45 is too big of a gun for me to carry comfortably concealed.  I would be willing to use my gun in all of the situations you listed except for hunting. Though I have no doubts that in a "wilderness" situation it would perform as needed. I bought it for personal/home defense, range shooting, and for carry when I'm out in the sticks camping/hiking/whathaveyou.

[lazs2]

for carry... when you get to a full sized gun it really isn't that much difference between a 9 mm and a 44 mag.. they are all a pain in one way or another.   the 12 oz smith 340 pd in 357 is great for that.   I don't need a 10-50 shot full sized semi auto in some oddball caliber.. I just want one that doesn't weigh a ton and will stop someone from continueing with their bad manners up close to me and I want it to do so with one or two rounds.

I doubt that I will get into any prolonged gunfight with anyone in a city these days and 5 shots is plenty... one is probly plenty to stop em or make em run away..  I will settle for either.

For everything else.   I want enough gun and... I don't want to chase brass... I also want to be able to shoot shot rounds at nasty snakes.

That means that the or 45 colt revolver is king.   I allready have a lot of 44's and I have 25 years of loads for em that work so the 45 colt is out.

leaving... the 44 mag.

sooo.. for me.. the 44 mag is best for about everything with a light .357 for cc and maybe a good 22 for some fun.   I do like the old Kimber 45 for the nitghtstand tho...

Heck.. I am looking at the 22 oz 44 mag scandium revolver and thinking that with a hammer bob job and a little smoothing up it might make a good carry gun....

lazs

[Dago]

Hey lasz, semi-auto pistols are ten times better than revolvers.  Everyone knows that.

[BowHTR]

For All the answers i say put down the pistol and pick up my .308

[Dago]

Originally posted by lazs2
dago.. I allready own a better 45 than you do.

I guess this must mean you have a bigger "johnson"?    

[lazs2]

you might guess that but what it really means is that I allready own a better .45 than you do and... I also own and reload for all the other calibers that I am talking about.   sooooo...  I might know what I prefer and why while you...

lacking any real experiance to speak of rely on what you read in some "enthusiasts" website.

still...you ignore the instructions in every box your shiny auto shuckers come with that says to not rely on the gun until you have a few hundred rounds through it and even then.... only with certain types of ammo and perfect magazines.

While the revolvers only come with instructions that wink at you and say "now you aren't going to shoot reloads are you?"

Bowhtr is correct tho.. the .308/ought six 7.62 anything is the best.

lazs

[Dago]

Originally posted by lazs2
you might guess that but what it really means is that I allready own a better .45 than you do and... I also own and reload for all the other calibers that I am talking about.   sooooo...  I might know what I prefer and why while you...

lacking any real experiance to speak of rely on what you read in some "enthusiasts" website.

still...you ignore the instructions in every box your shiny auto shuckers come with that says to not rely on the gun until you have a few hundred rounds through it and even then.... only with certain types of ammo and perfect magazines.

While the revolvers only come with instructions that wink at you and say "now you aren't going to shoot reloads are you?"

Bowhtr is correct tho.. the .308/ought six 7.62 anything is the best.

lazs

I bought my first handgun 34 years ago.  I have aquired others since, and never sold one.

I have run thousands of rounds through handguns, mine and others.  I have fired many revolvers of differant calibers.  There was a time when I went shooting every weekend, and would shoot for hours.  (before marriage).

I dont reload, except for shotgun, but I have an awful lot of brass saved from shooting if I ever decide to start.

So, without knowing me really, knowing what I actually have and my experience, you are quick to make assumptions.

I do not list my weapons on this board or anywhere else online, some things I do not feel is really anyone elses business.  I will occasionally mention one of my firearms, but typically only one.  (I sent one rifle in for repair to the manufacturer, they replaced the internals and told me I had worn the weapon out).  

You did finally say one thing I didn't think you understood, your statements about handguns are your "preference", and that is fine, what I don't agree with is your categoric statements about what is best, most accurate, that people can't be trained to shoot semi-autos accurately.   You ignore reality when it comes to the fact that the overwhelming majority of handguns used in competition are semi-autos, and the majority of winners in those competitions are shooting semi-autos.   There is a reason for that.

So, we are both gun enthusiasts, and that is fine.   Please remember the "best" or what works for a person is purely subjective, and quite honestly cannot ever be stated as definitive.

dago

[storch]

good post dago

[Maverick]

For anyone who is truly an enthusiast in any sport there will be a set of firmly held beliefs. If they find something that works for them its going to be taken almost like "gospel". Laz is one of those folks who tends to come accross that way, alot.

Hand guns, any gun really, is a personal thing in that some things work for one person and others don't.