Pointless Gameplay.

[Bucky73]

Bat....totally agree with ya on this one bro. Its rare to get a good 1v1 anymore in this game and when you do it almost always ends up the way yours did in the film. I was surprised when i saw who it was.

All the waterheads that are posting waaaaaaaaa post's are the ones that do the HOing so don't take much stock in it.

I have the most fun in this game when i'm fightin you and your buds. (even though i'm on the loosing end most of the time)

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Bucky73
Bat....totally agree with ya on this one bro. Its rare to get a good 1v1 anymore in this game and when you do it almost always ends up the way yours did in the film. I was surprised when i saw who it was.

You weren't the only one shocked either.

[Grits]

I just want to go on record here that I WILL[/b] HO you if I get a shot and not even think twice about it.

There is nothing funnier than leveling off and blowing a guy up when he's still 800 out.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Grits
There is nothing funnier than leveling off and blowing a guy up when he's still 800 out.

You are a lamer weiner, and probably fly Fw190A8s.

- oldman (just a guess) (and I've never seen you take a HO shot no matter what the range) (so stop taunting these people)

[TW9]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
chaingun it wasnt you sir!! that was a fair shot and a good one S! I must admit i had to laugh when i saw your IL2 at 13k, you have the patience of an artist   nothing at all to do with our encounter earlier, and i know you can give a good fight.


slapshot, good point, you've got me thinking there.



TW9, if you view from his cockpit, all you see is my nose untill 50yrds.

in a merge, you do not have to fly through each other, i dont think i could have waited much longer to break. he was merging on the dive, and i had worked some vertical seperation by diving early. as i pull up i come to the point where i could pull my guns on target, but i assume (yes, stupidly) that he wants a good fight and deliberately keep my nose just off target.



look from his view, it isnt untill the very last second that he sees anything but my nose.




may i also stress that i didnt want this to become a personal matter with the pilot involved, i will hold no grudge against him.

i will, however, call that style of 'fighting' a lame waste of time untill the cows come home.

yes u dont have to fly through but atleast have to pass.. u broke too soon and he made u pay for it.. thats all im saying.. and the fact that it was ur tail that got shot off and not ur canopy says that he saw something a lil different than what is shown on your film which is possible due to lag.. he saw ur tail and under belly pull up infront of his guns and pulled the trigger..

it looked to me as though he wanted to merge just like u thought but when u broke too soon he caught ya which is what most would have done or regretted not doing if they didnt..

u screwed up and trying to make the guy look bad but the film really isnt showing a ho to me at all. just a mistake on your part thats all i see.. no offense.. i know ur a good stick.. but im not just gonna watch the film and agree with u just because of that... im goign to tell u how i see it otherwise whats the point in posting the film?

[smash]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV

as we close, 6k, 5k, 4k, 3k, im thinking 'who is it?' 'do i go short or long, do i have the E to rope him or do etc.....[snip]

Lotsa thinking... but no thinking about what to do if he jacks you at the end.

Originally posted by B@tfinkV

the enemy digs his rudder as hard as he can and shoots me right in the face, tearing me to shreds......

now this wasnt a newb who didnt know better, this was someone who has been playing longer than me by a few years.


he KNEW i was avoiding that HO shot,

yep - you are right on both counts.  And he bagged you.

[Grits]

Originally posted by Oldman731
You are a lamer weiner, and probably fly Fw190A8s.

- oldman (just a guess) (and I've never seen you take a HO shot no matter what the range) (so stop taunting these people)

OK, OK you got me I am stirring the pot. But I do take HO shots, and I dont feel bad when I do. Most of the time I take HO shots is when there is nothing left in the hangar but an IL-2 and there is a swarm of vulchers orbiting the base. In that case I do shoot over 800 out and giggle like a schoolgirl (or like slash) when they blow up and I dont.

[clerick]

Yes, i'm a noob, BUT i think that hoing is crap.   Sure it's a bit of a whine, but in my limited experience these HO dinks will either blow you away or ram you.  Cant count the number of times that i have gone on for a merge and seen the guns blazing.  If they shoot i'll take a shot if i have one if thats their game, more often then not i'll try to dive out of their sights only to have them whack into me trying to get off a snap shot.

In one night i got rammed by the same guy 3 times as he tried to dive in on my 6.  Sure, if i was better he never would have gotten there, but some of these guys just dont get it. Why bother to get good when you can powerup and grab a new plane.  It's not really a whine as much as a criticism of a mentality that seems to be emerging; "If it isnt easy then forget it."

A kill is a kill right?  I dont think so, even in WWII there was a certain code.  Pilots from both sides would respect a good fight, there was even a documented situation where a german pilot beat a brit fair and square, then escorted him back to his base to keep other German pilots from vulching the wounded plane.  I dont expect anything near that, but it does bother me.  In fact i would say that the main reason that i strive to get better is to teach these kind of hacks a lesson.

Anyway, from the short time that i've been playing it has been 99% positive and the best defense against these yahoos is to blacklist them.  The people that i fly with are good about calling them out so the rest of us can kick their butt every time we see them!  

Enough of that.  How about that local sports team and/or weather?

[Rikitic]

I GOT A GUN POINTED AT YOUR HEAD, but I'm not going to shoot cause I'm a virtual stud. Bull I'm killin your dumb-oscar. Oh did I forget to mention I'm even more a virtual stud cause I knew you had guns pointed at me and still didnt shoot ?

Think what you will provide me a sight picture I WILL SHOOT. Been okie doked one to many times.

Oh another thing, if you gain advantage I'm out.

READ BELOW

[Murdr]

I went back and watched the film again just to confirm my first impression.  Yes it sucks that when you do find a 1v1 off in a quiet corner, you have to assume the other guy will try to HO the initial merge.

Bat, you did leave the opening.  Your turn started 1100 yards away from the merge point with a soft stedy RoT.  You were under the merge and rising, but you did not have directly opposing vectors.  (which means the other guy has to neg G, or invert for guns).  Instead you had offset opposing vectors which allow for the 'bank and turn' that happened.  That is a good position for an opening chandell...which by the way would have closed the angles to help achieve being inside a merge shot, but not good for an early immelman.

Your compass headings at the time of the shot are a good 20 degrees different.  (I am looking at the merge from directly over head with trails on).  In other words it is very much off angle for a true HO.

 


I really try to stress in training the balancing act that is the merge.  I will take someone who is relatively new at sim combat flying, and let them lose badly a few times trying to go for the HO.  Then I will explain the disadvantages of the HO shot, and why I am behind them so quickly.  After some further instruction, we usually end up with me trying to correct them on their late initial turn.  That typically leads to them making the initial turn too early.....guess what?   Negative reinforcement, I will ping them for doing that.  The idea is to clearly define the 'window' they have to work with during the merge to both protect themselves from a merge shot, and attempt to gain an early angles advantage.  Im only saying all this to elaborate on my attitude... you were outside the window that time.

[B@tfinkV]

so basicaly what your saying murdr, is that you teach the new guys to HO if the enemy gives you the chance? good one. i dont give a tuppeny toss if the angle wasnt directly facing each other. Any 'merge' where you fly at each other from 6k and go guns blazing in the last 1000 yrds is in my mind an easy way out of having a real fight.  any 'merge' that starts from 6k where you dont fire untill the last half second is even more of a cheap tactic.  its like saying ' i know you are gunna cold merge with me, so i will wait untill you have no chance to avoid or shoot back, then take my shot.'

Zazen said it very well, and many others here said it good too.

its just how some of us play the game that some of you will never understand.

Originally posted by TW9
im goign to tell u how i see it otherwise whats the point in posting the film?

very true and i respect your opinion even if i dont agree with you.

Originally posted by Shifty
Let me see if I got this....................

A guy kicks his rudder on the merge and shoots your tail off. Not hitting your engine or getting a PW, but knocking your tail off. That's lame?

You get an 800 yard uber cannon kill on the Dora. That's not lame?

rubbish. notice in the text buffer after the dora 'fluke shot' i type on ch200 'woah!' as if to say 'wtf, that was pure luck'


and even at 800 yrds, a 20mm round to the head will kill you.  its either very good shooting (if i had hit it first time) or  just plain luck (as in this case). Had the 190 pilot complained to me on 200 i woulda agreed with him and said 'yup, thats kinda unlikely and gamey, but hell, it don't happen that often and next time i wont be so lucky, good flying sir'

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if the supposed HO shot i am talking about had been at a time when i most definitely could not get guns on, then i would be just in whine mode about dying. but thats not the case, both of us had 6000 yrds to line up for that shot. one decides not to in the hope of winning or losing a good fight, the other the opposite in the desperate hope of getting a 'kill' recorded.


I respect the opinion of everyone who has taken the topic seriously, no matter if you agree or disagree with my thoughts.

those of you that seriously believe i care about 'being killed' (virtualy) are plain wrong. I die alot and generaly think nothing of it.


S! to those of you that 'get it'.

S! to those of you that 'get it' but still disagree with me in this instance.


to sum up my feelings, yet again, the title is what matters to me 'pointless gameplay'.

[TW9]

S!

[Murdr]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
so basicaly what your saying murdr, is that you teach the new guys to HO if the enemy gives you the chance? good one. i dont give a tuppeny toss if the angle wasnt directly facing each other. Any 'merge' where you fly at each other from 6k and go guns blazing in the last 1000 yrds is in my mind an easy way out of having a real fight.  any 'merge' that starts from 6k where you dont fire untill the last half second is even more of a cheap tactic.  its like saying ' i know you are gunna cold merge with me, so i will wait untill you have no chance to avoid or shoot back, then take my shot.'

Ok, here it is in nice bold red letters so it is easy to understand.  I said I basically slap new guys on the wrist for going at the HO, then teach them what they need to do to defend from others HOing.  Knowing what not to do to leave yourself open to them is an important skill to have.  See Head Ons are part of the game no matter what the bbs community thinks of them.  

It is an unpopular tactic, and you come here posting what would naturally be a popular position (come join my band wagon).  Be that as it may a few of us realists have pointed out (paraphrasing)"you should have expected it", "you set yourself up for it".  Sorry if that is so offensive that you feel the need to twist my words into something I clearly did not say.  That kind of response is exactly why these thread end up locked.[/size]
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[B@tfinkV]

you havnt offended me murdr, and i hope i havnt offended you.


i didnt intend to twit your words, i merely misunderstood your words.


you could have corrected me without the patronising red wall i see there.

S! your opinion counts just the same as anyones, doesnt mean i have to bow down and change everything i think about the game.

it just seems to me that you not only equip new players with anti-HO tactics, but you also let them see clearly that if thier opponent doesnt point guns right at you untill you have crossed paths, its more than ok to shoot them.

if i misunderstood then its my failing not yours, and jumping on your high horse and treating me like an idiot only pushes me further away from agreeing with you.

[Murdr]

Fair enough.

As far as tall equines, prostrating ones self, and such...  Keep in mind I was correcting an impression that does not accurately reflect on the AHTC.  Nothing personal.