Author Topic: Aviation Experts: Is F/A-18 worth the investment?  (Read 1084 times)

Offline Chairboy

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Aviation Experts: Is F/A-18 worth the investment?
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2006, 11:04:19 AM »
The vietnam thing might be a red herring for the real utility of guns: Unexpected requests for close support.  

It's one thing to have a loadout for planned target runs, it's another thing to get a call from someone while you're on your way back (after delivering your packages) who needs help and not being able to do anything about it.

These days, I'd be less worried about dog fights than that.  I flew with an pilot who was shot down in Vietnam.  He ejected and parachuted next to a big group of vietcong.  He said it looked like a swarm of ants converging on him as he was descending.  Another american plane laid down fire behind him to slow them down.  He's standing there in shock from the ejection, when someone grabs him by his shoulder and yanks him backwards.  It takes a few seconds to realize he's just been pulled up into a Huey that was in the right place at the right time, he didn't even hear it approach because of his state of mind and the noise of the circling jet above that was delaying the enemy long enough for his extraction.

Now if that guy above hadn't had any ordnance left...
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Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2006, 11:12:56 AM »
Adding a pod on the outside of the F35 kinda ruins the sleek stealthy look and makes it a larger "target".

From what ive hear from our F16 operating in Afghanistan the gun was very useful in scaring off attackers and individuals on the ground and dispersing crowds. hehe lets call it a good crowd control tool.

The other thing is that in so many situations you have ROE that forces you to get up close and look at what the other guy is, and a gun would be handy in close combat. Im sure that the fighter pilots would get abit upset if you removed their gun. Imagine lazs as a fighterpilot without his "sidearm" :p  he would go ballistic on the designers of the aircraft and the government that ordered it long before he took a shot at the enemy. :p
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 11:15:36 AM by Nilsen »

Offline Mark Luper

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« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2006, 11:24:18 AM »
This is the first I've heard about no gun on the Marine F35 and I work out there. Not to say I know all there is to know about it by any means. Where did you all get that information? I'm not doubting you, just curious.
MarkAT

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Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2006, 11:44:07 AM »
That's been the story since the beginning.  Here's the FAS page:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-35.htm
Quote
US Marine Corps

The distinguishing feature of the USMC version of the JSF is its short takeoff/vertical landing capability (STOVL). There will not be an internally mounted machine gun, but an external gun can be fitted. This version requires controllability on all axes while hovering. Another critical design feature is its impact on the ground surface beneath it during hover. The USMC expects their version of the JSF will replace the F/A-18 Hornet and the AV-8 Harrier. The Marine Corps expects to purchase 480 STOVL versions of the F-35.
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Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2006, 11:51:36 AM »
last I heard the F35B was only replacing the Harriers (wich also don't have an internally mounted gun)

The Corps would be stupid to get rid of their fleet of F18s

Offline Tac

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« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2006, 12:22:52 PM »

Offline Mark Luper

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« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2006, 01:35:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
That's been the story since the beginning.  Here's the FAS page:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-35.htm


Thanks Choirboy, I appreciate the link.
MarkAT

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Offline Ball

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Aviation Experts: Is F/A-18 worth the investment?
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2006, 02:25:13 PM »

Offline cpxxx

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« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2006, 04:01:42 PM »
Cool video, zooming in and around the clouds is great fun. Did the same thing once near the Tennessee/Mississippi border. Sadly it was in a Cessna 152 and I didn't get to land on a carrier afterwards. :cry Still it was great fun.

As for the F18. I think it will go down as a classic like the F16, P51 etc. Sure it's a compromise but it does the job perfectly well. I tend to think the stealth factor in the new generation of fighters is, perhaps a luxury rarely used. Recent history has shown that the very first thing that happens to the enemy's air defences is that it's shutdown by a  combination of jamming and radiation missiles.  Since the Vietnam war, to switch on a radar was to invite a missile onto your doorstep. In other less sophisticated wars like Afghanistan, what's needed is close in, close air support. Stealth is no use when the enemy can hear and see you. The fact that the A10 is still in service proves that. In fact the mere sight of an A10 in the vicinity often suppresses the enemy as evidenced in Iraq. No one want to look down the barrel of that gatling gun.

I think that may be the point of leaving off the internal gun on Marine F35's. You will only need it for CAS and for CAS you don't need stealth. The role of the gun in air combat is probably finished. In truth dogfighting with guns will be restricted to places like Aces High in the future.

There will always be a place for unstealthy, down in the dirt attack aircraft in the future. Maybe!