Testing Capture system in LW orange today

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by hitech
Thrawn:

 


You just hit the nail right on the head. Do you think hockey always had offsides or icing, or do you think those rules evolved for better game play?

HiTech

Sure the rules changed but it didn't necessarily make the game better.  I'm not against the experimentation in and of itself.  If am against effects this particular experiment is having on my AH experience.  As a customer I'm trying to articulate my feelings on a proposed product change.  Some people seem to believe that just because it's an experiment, people should like the results, I don't agree with them.

[Edbert]

Originally posted by Laurie
never try and tell a brit, about the battle of britain, especially when his family includes to RAF officers of that era , just some advice ,,]

Yeah Quah...and since the invasion fleet left from the UK don't try and tell Laurie that the beaches of Normandy were actually defended.

[TW9]

Originally posted by hitech
Thrawn:

 


You just hit the nail right on the head. Do you think hockey always had offsides or icing, or do you think those rules evolved for better game play?

HiTech

lol please dont use hockey! they also watered down the game by making it less the physical game i remember and most of the league only full their stadiums 64%. im not saying ur watering down.. i thik the new stuff is great.. just dont use hockey is all im saying

[Quah!]

Yeah Quah...and since the invasion fleet left from the UK don't try and tell Laurie that the beaches of Normandy were actually defended.

LOL OK Lauri you were just flamed.


BTW Ed do you need my address so you can send me that fresh Venison Jerky.

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
Can someone who hates the system please describe, calmly and accurately, exactly what has changed in the game setup, and how it has made everything but furballing completely impossible? Maybe I'm just not looking at the new setup in the right light.

Hate might be a little strong but I'll try to explain from my viewpoint.

It's more about variety.  For instance, go look at the orange map right now.  I can't because I'm at work but I'll bet that

1.  There is nowhere viable to become a lone defender at a port or CV base.
2.  The CV's are currently useless in attaining the current capturable targets eliminating the use of 8" guns.
3.  The CV's are not being attacked eliminateing the rest of the CV's usefulness.
4.  There is no way to disrupt enemy supply lines by taking a zone base, only by striking factories.  Once lost, there is no way to get your zone base back until it comes up on the line.
5.  There are no enemy bombers, nor are any bases taken close enough to your 163 base to make 163's a viable option.
6.  The vast majority of players are concentrated in 6 sectors eliminating the chance for 1 on 1's and killing frame rates for people with older machines (like me).  In fact theres probably not a viable location to find a 1 on 2 or 1 on 3.
7.  There are one or two milk-runners somewhere on the map unopposed as there is no need to oppose them, they can't "take" anything.  This should make milk-running MORE prevelent in the future.
8.  There may not be a viable option to use GV's at the moment (although there may be).
9.  At least one front is facing insurmountable odds with no options to re-direct the attack.

These are just a few examples.  I'm sure if I had time I could come up with more.  This is clearly more restrictive than in the past.  I agree that you don't lose everything and that some of what you lose you might get back as the line moves across the map but if you've lost your favorite part of play, then all you can do is hope that it's available when you are.

[Stang]

Originally posted by hitech
Thrawn:

 


You just hit the nail right on the head. Do you think hockey always had offsides or icing, or do you think those rules evolved for better game play?

HiTech

And how about more importantly, does the defending team in hockey not know where the goal is?  Didn't think so.

[96Delta]

Originally posted by Quah!
LOL Delta, I would think you of all people would be able to see the need for better tactics in this new system and be able to rise to the occasion rather than cry in your beer.

Where are all these great stratergerist that have been clammering for better more challenging tactics.  Now you have them  and you are all running for the door.  What gives?

You guys have to open your eyes, accept the changes and see what new tactics you can dream up.

I think it's sort of sad, when you have dedicated furballers being able to understand, see the need, create and execute the new tactics while the bonafide strat guys are just sticking their heads in the sand.

Minus Flayed who has stepped up and is doing a great job trying to make this a better game for everyone.

Its a slugfest.
Horde vs. Horde.

How do you combat the hording mentality people decry?
Simple: force everyone into a huge horde.  Problem solved.

I can say something good about it though.
At least now ALL the players who participate in the capture game are in one place working together as a horde should.  And to that I say

[TW9]

Originally posted by BaldEagl
Hate might be a little strong but I'll try to explain from my viewpoint.

It's more about variety.  For instance, go look at the orange map right now.  I can't because I'm at work but I'll bet that

1.  There is nowhere viable to become a lone defender at a port or CV base.
2.  The CV's are currently useless in attaining the current capturable targets eliminating the use of 8" guns.
3.  The CV's are not being attacked eliminateing the rest of the CV's usefulness.
4.  There is no way to disrupt enemy supply lines by taking a zone base, only by striking factories.  Once lost, there is no way to get your zone base back until it comes up on the line.
5.  There are no enemy bombers, nor are any bases taken close enough to your 163 base to make 163's a viable option.
6.  The vast majority of players are concentrated in 6 sectors eliminating the chance for 1 on 1's and killing frame rates for people with older machines (like me).  In fact theres probably not a viable location to find a 1 on 2 or 1 on 3.
7.  There are one or two milk-runners somewhere on the map unopposed as there is no need to oppose them, they can't "take" anything.  This should make milk-running MORE prevelent in the future.
8.  There may not be a viable option to use GV's at the moment (although there may be).
9.  At least one front is facing insurmountable odds with no options to re-direct the attack.

These are just a few examples.  I'm sure if I had time I could come up with more.  This is clearly more restrictive than in the past.  I agree that you don't lose everything and that some of what you lose you might get back as the line moves across the map but if you've lost your favorite part of play, then all you can do is hope that it's available when you are.

keep in miind that this is a new system being implemented and it will take time to work out all the kinks. AH has been through many changes over the years and is still around tweaking today..

[Quah!]

Its a slugfest.
Horde vs. Horde.

How do you combat the hording mentality people decry?
Simple: force everyone into a huge horde. Problem solved.

The hordes would never have been  a problem if they fought each other.  And yes if you are going to fly in a horde as the majority do, then they should be forced to fly against each other and it should be a slugfest.

IMH, your tactics back when you were doing your horde missions are the exact tactics you need to exercise now.

Breaking your massive horde up into hit squads with different missions rather than the usual orders you guys give, "ok everyone up fly to field2 and flatten it."

Now you need to send 4 or 5 guys to the supporting bases and suppress there while your main attack hits and suppresses fighters at the target field.

Why is this so hard for you to see?

Yes if one of the missions fail the potential for total failure is there, but that alone makes each persons role more exciting and fulfilling when you pull it off, no?

[96Delta]

Originally posted by Stang
And how about more importantly, does the defending team in hockey not know where the goal is?  Didn't think so.

I thought we were playing chess, not hockey.
Now I'm REALLY confused.  

When do we start on World War II?  

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by TW9
keep in miind that this is a new system being implemented and it will take time to work out all the kinks. AH has been through many changes over the years and is still around tweaking today..

I do realize this.  I was just responding to hubsonfire's request for an explanation.

[john9001]

Originally posted by Quah!

Now you need to send 4 or 5 guys to the supporting bases and suppress there while your main attack hits and suppresses fighters at the target field.

Why is this so hard for you to see?

 

oh, so now toolsheding and vulching is ok?

[96Delta]

Originally posted by Quah!
The hordes would never have been  a problem if they fought each other.  And yes if you are going to fly in a horde as the majority do, then they should be forced to fly against each other and it should be a slugfest.

IMH, your tactics back when you were doing your horde missions are the exact tactics you need to exercise now.

Breaking your massive horde up into hit squads with different missions rather than the usual orders you guys give, "ok everyone up fly to field2 and flatten it."

Now you need to send 4 or 5 guys to the supporting bases and suppress there while your main attack hits and suppresses fighters at the target field.

Why is this so hard for you to see?

Yes if one of the missions fail the potential for total failure is there, but that alone makes each persons role more exciting and fulfilling when you pull it off, no?

The organized squad hordes are a thing of the past since the split.
With the disintegration of the squads, organizing horde missions of the type you describe is now hit or miss and exceedingly rare.  

I don't know if hitech captures the data, but I would love to see the number of missions launched since the split and now, with the introduction of this new schema.  Would say something about the gameplay from a 'mission' perspective.  Just curious.

But hey, I fly as Rook and we have been steamrolling bases.  Guess our horde is bigger so whatever...

[Edbert]

Originally posted by Laurie
sure thing hub,
 

My translations inserted.

Originally posted by Laurie
basically, now there are only one or two fights to choose from,  

Some players would rather head to parts of the map where there are no large fights. They do not realize that doing so now is actually easier than before. If the complaint was that it was hard to find a fight they should be happy, if thier complaint was that they wanted to avoid a fight they should be even happier. The fact that they are not merely proves that the only real issue for many of the detractors is that they cannot capture an undefended base anymore.

Originally posted by Laurie
and there oversized,
 

Too many bad guys at the base they want to capture means they'll have to put forth too much effort, it was more fun against zero (or too little too late) opposition, but now that they'll have to earn it takes all the fun away.

Originally posted by Laurie
also, a part of the game i find fun, defending,
 

Defense is still an option, in fact now that the attackers cannot vaporize at the sight of some red icons and attack elesewhere... your ability tp play defense is better than ever.

Originally posted by Laurie
intercepting long range missions and
 

You can intercept anything you want to. Oh, there are fewer long-range missions now you mean. Well, talk to some of those bomber-only squadrons, I hear the BOPs have one. If you see fewer long-range missions up now than before you certainly cannot blame the fighter contingent.

Originally posted by Laurie
attcking bases with elemnet of suprise is almost non-existent now.
 

See above. If these missions aren't being run, then you and your long-range mission friends better get busy. Kind of silly to complain that other folks aren't doing something that you don't want to do either. You can still strike deep, you can still run NOE, you can still pork and auger, you can hit ord/troops/fuel, the strats are all still there. The only thing that has dampened the desire for long range missions is the capture thing. You can no longer sneak a base and take it unopposed and say on channel 200 that "Base A134 was taken by the 303453'd 1337 bumber skwad".

So yeah, if your primary source of fun in AH was to CAPTURE bases without having to defeat anything other than AI-ack and some sheds...I'll agree with you ...this game is less fun now. But if your fun came from any ot the things you listed (other than undefended base captures) your source of joy is still there. If you log on with the purpose of finding a human competitor in a cartoon airplane then this change is near panacea, it is very hard to NOT find a place to fight now. The only thing truly missing is the whack-a-mole game we've been playing for the last 3-4 years.

[96Delta]

Originally posted by Quah!
...I think 2 country's is the way to go.

Well now Quah! - I agree totally with this.

Two countries - Allies vs. Axis with restricted planesets.
(allies only get to fly allied planes, axis flies axis planes)

yea, I know...but I'm keeping hope alive.