Author Topic: Furball Survival  (Read 1886 times)

Offline FrodeMk3

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Furball Survival
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2006, 04:57:59 PM »
Ty guys, I'll try and get some films posted. I appreciate all the input <>

Offline kamilyun

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« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2006, 05:01:05 PM »
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
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BAH! PUNKS! :mad:  :furious

Offline Overlag

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Re: Re: Furball Survival
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2006, 06:11:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TW9
Could have outclimbed most of them..


and rope the silly little buggers...

did that in my first niki sortie for like 3 years.... roped 3 guys in ONE rope....lol
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline FiLtH

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« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2006, 12:41:50 AM »
Just keep doing it.  You can only get better. The rtb is over-rated, and the planes cost 15 bucks a month whether you land it or not.

~AoM~

Offline Saxman

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« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2006, 01:20:07 AM »
Your best options when outnumbered are to stay high and stay fast. Conserve E as much as you can with shallow turns. Chandelle to maintain energy and grab altitude. Ki-84 WILL out run a good chunk of the plane set at many alts, so drag the La-7 out from the pack where you can turn him to death. If you've got a good enough head start you might be able to pull him away from his buddies to 1v1 him before they can catch up (note that most La drivers are one-pass wonders in the main. They make their one mach-speed pass, and if they blow even a little of their advantage will turn tail and run hoping you follow so they can shoot you in the back when you disengage).

If you still had enough of an E advantage after your initial dive, you should have been able to zoom out and then use the 84's straight climb advantage to disengage.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2006, 02:26:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Ty guys, I'll try and get some films posted. I appreciate all the input <>


SA is the number one thing.   I flew with Wax in AH1 and have yet to see someone with better SA than him.   But, what I started doing was listening to music on WMP while flying, I turned it up to the point where I was constantly on the hats and keypad.   It works, and I still do it to this day.
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Offline Overlag

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« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2006, 06:43:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FiLtH
Just keep doing it.  You can only get better. The rtb is over-rated, and the planes cost 15 bucks a month whether you land it or not.


some like to do more than kill and die.... some like compleating there mission, and RTBing... these people often dont HO and do other dweeby stuff......
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline Flayed1

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« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2006, 08:50:58 AM »
This is simple...... I just fly bombers at 20 some odd thousand feet over the furball....  I have a great furball survival rate using this meathod. :p
From the ashes of the old we rise to fly again. Behold The Phoenix Wing!

Offline Quah!

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« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2006, 09:43:29 AM »
LOL I think Frode knows that staying high and cherry picking is one way to survive.  I dont think this is lost on many except the completely new.

Overlag, this thread was more about how to fight in overwhelming numbers not how to do the safety dance with little risk.  What you add is little help to frode or anyone, dont you think??  No disrespect meant.


Frode:  It's all about SA, angles and defense.  In these fights you have to stay on the defensive and wait for the other guys to make mistakes that you can capitalize on, without making any mistakes yourself.  That is why this is so challenging and fun when it starts to gel for you.

You need to pull into anyone that is about to jump on your six thus taking away their shot.  Try to pull into them in such a way that you get them all going in the same direction, thus grouping them so they aren't coming at you from all different directions.  There are no hard fast rules on how to do this, just instinct and most of all experience and good SA.  When you do pull you want to pull just hard enough to stay out of their shot vector, but not so hard you kill a lot of E.  But sometimes you dont have a choice.

Don't climb no matter what, unless you have an e advantage over all of them.  This doesn't mean don't pull up for a few second to perform a wing over type move, but the last thing you want is to be nose up and slow where your maneuverability and roll rate ( ability to change direction quickly ) is majorly reduced.

You need to get comfortable with guys crawling up your six and breaking at the last moment, then rolling back into them.  This comes with recognizing when they are that close but don't have a shot.  you need to read their thrust vector and speed in relation to their shot vector so you know when they are in close but can't hit you.  The best way to do this is fly on the deck for a while and allow yourself to be BnZd.  If you can outlast a BnZ pilot, never giving him a shot, it forces you learn how to wait to the last moment to break and it forces you to wait till they make a mistake.

Once you get guys in close they are easier to out maneuver and kill, rather than just avoid their attack.  If you get them all in close and grouped together you can fight them all as one and your odds get better.

know off the bat that this is a hard road to master, but once you do this game takes on a whole new perspective.  Then you realize what edge of your seat, heart racing action really means.  

As hub, et-al have said there is no set recipe, you just have to accrue enough experiences and a skill set that only comes from being in these situations enough times to learn the skills necessary to survive and do well in them.  Yeah at the beginning you will die a lot, but it will start to come together if you stay at it and you will realize why pure ACM is one of the most satisfying aspects of this game for many.  And being outnumbered and holding your own kind of the Holy Grail.  Most of all be very aggressive.  Anytime you hear about the guys that were successful in real life they alway talk about these types being very aggressive.

You have to ask yourself tho, do you have what it takes to take your lumps and get better?  If you do the payoff is great when you start winning 3 V 1, 4 V 1, etc.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2006, 10:04:09 AM by Quah! »

Offline Grits

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« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2006, 10:15:50 AM »
The reason guys like Lev survive fights like that is they make every opportunity for a snapshot count, and not just raking a badguy, they kill it. Gunnery is #1 in my book. I can fly and survive in 2-4 vs 1 for a decent amount of time, but I only rarely get any killing snapshots, but Lev does nearly every shot he takes. I know Fester has unreal gunnery too, thats probably how he did it.

I dont think outright flying skills do it, its making the most fleeting of snapshots a killshot that makes bad odds fighting survivable.

Offline Quah!

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« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2006, 10:36:47 AM »
Absolutely Grits!!!!  But you need the flying to stay alive long enough to get the opportunity for those shots.

I'm in your boat.

I would love to hear from Elf boy(Lev), Drex, Sax, Laz, Toad, Slap, Furb, Stang et-al who I have watched alone down in the weeds completely surrounded.  I dive in to help, die and as I am flying back to the fight they are RTB with all the kills LOL :rofl

Offline Grits

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« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2006, 10:50:11 AM »
I know from fighting guys like Stang, Lev, Furball that they dont miss those low % shots that most do. I will do a move against them that gives a low % shot, that the average person misses so I dont hessitate to do it, but those guys DONT miss those shots. BluKitty, Yucca, the list is actually quite long, but think of anybody that the community thinks of as "really good" and they have gunnery in the top 1%. Sure they can outfly most people, but what makes them deadly in a furball is their gunnery. Give any of those guys the most brief of low% shots and at best you are flying away with parts missing, but usually you are in the tower thinking WTF just happened?

On the other hand, I have won lots of fights where my opponent outflew me, but they couldnt make the low % snapshots, and I did.

Offline Quah!

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« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2006, 11:30:28 AM »
LOL ok Grits so you are saying that all you need to survive in this game is be able to make great shots  lol.

Yes I agree that being able to make those great shots makes a big difference, but if you don't give up those shots then it comes down to flying.

On the same thought, If all I do is practice my shooting then I will be as good as Lev et-al.  I don't think so.

Let's face it, if all you had to be was a good shot then all Top Gun would be is lessons on target practice. :aok

But yes the combination of great ACM skill and excellent gunnery is deadly.

Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2006, 11:35:34 AM »
And on the Eighth Day sayeth the Lord, "Man shall have pissing contests every day no matter how trivial the subject."
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Offline TW9

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Furball Survival
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2006, 11:43:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Quah!
LOL ok Grits so you are saying that all you need to survive in this game is be able to make great shots  lol.

Yes I agree that being able to make those great shots makes a big difference, but if you don't give up those shots then it comes down to flying.

On the same thought, If all I do is practice my shooting then I will be as good as Lev et-al.  I don't think so.

Let's face it, if all you had to be was a good shot then all Top Gun would be is lessons on target practice. :aok

But yes the combination of great ACM skill and excellent gunnery is deadly.


great gunnery is needed since in a furball u arent going to know whos trying to set u up for a gun solution all the time. and the longer u are trying to get one on somebody else the more and more likely ur getting homed in on.

the more quick snapshots u can get off the more u will have a chance of making it out.. More so than just pure skill alone..


ps i own u :aok . check avatar
« Last Edit: December 04, 2006, 11:46:27 AM by TW9 »
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Edit2: BAN the ass-hat. That's not skuzzy, that's a tard named TW9