Author Topic: How to dog fight 1vs1 101.  (Read 623 times)

Offline Husky01

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How to dog fight 1vs1 101.
« on: December 07, 2006, 05:09:42 PM »
Hello I had some free time on my hands so posted this thread to possibly help some beginers in the art of 1 on 1 dogfighting. So I hope this helps a lil if you have any questions ill be happy to help you with thim. The following links below are posted in order click on the images below to inlarge the. Each photo has a slight supcaptions explaining the photo.


1st Move





2nd Move





3rd Move





4th Move

« Last Edit: December 07, 2006, 05:18:14 PM by Husky01 »
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9GIAP VVS RKKA

Offline Spatula

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How to dog fight 1vs1 101.
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2006, 06:08:03 PM »
Don't take this as a criticism. You've detailed quite a specific set of circumstances. This is detailing the standard nose-to-nose vertical merge tactic which in the vert is still a turn-contest, but climb rate helps out here espc if you go into a 2nd nose-up nose-to-nose merge (2nd immelman). This scenario assumes co-E, cold-HO even-steven's merge - this rarely happens outside the DA, but is still worth mentioning with the appropriate caveats. Not all of these types of engagements will continue into a 2nd immel merge either, often the 2nd vertical turn is an oblique climbing turn as they dont have the E to fully complete another immelman with speed to spare, or one party just extends away knowing they cant compete vertically anymore and are prepared to be on the defensive.

All the same, its worth mentioning whats going on in frame 1. The dive towards each other is not necessarily about picking up as much speed as possible, but often is more about trying to get under your opponent on the merge and start a lead-turn in the vertical which should enable a snapshot opportunity shortly before the 2nd merge as the lead-turner will have his "nose around" earlier than the other typically. The person at the bottom on the merge who has pointed his crate upwards prior to the actual passing will typically gain enough angle for the aforementioned snapshot shortly before 2nd merge (cause they have already started his turn before their opponent). Your opponent may recognise what your up to, and dive down to attempt to cut off any vertical seperation which can be used to lead-turn with. Often, i chop the throttle on my dive to avoid getting too much smash to help keep me closer to corner velocity, and thus increasing my chances of getting my nose around 1st. Its a tough call whether to blow your E for the angle advantage pulling high-Gs, or whether to allow your opponent the bottom (and thus the angles) and let them execute a high-G reversal while you execute a nice fast n lazy low-G climbing extension then reverse with the E advantage. You have to make the call before the first merge and live (or die) with it. Often its easy to tell if they are going to go for the vert lead turn (eg they very aggressive in taking the low position first), other times it can be a bluff...

Check out the netaces write up on lead turns:
http://www.netaces.org/genmerges/leadturn.html#title
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Offline Husky01

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How to dog fight 1vs1 101.
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2006, 06:17:26 PM »
Thanks for the imput!!!

What i tryed to do was show in very simple manor how do a 1 on 1 fight lets say in the DA. What u typed up was extreamly complex and confusing ive been playing for 2 years and can hang with the best in the DA  and understud like nothin u said lol.  I tryed to make it short sweep and simple as i could so its kinda of a so called starting block for newer players entering the game. Just to get them somthin to start with.
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Offline Schatzi

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How to dog fight 1vs1 101.
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2006, 06:30:35 PM »
As a starting block, id like to point out the most important part of the merge you show there.

Both pilots want to turn around on the opponent as quick as possible. After all, you need your nose pointed at the guy to shoot him. In a plane, as we are not limited to one plane of motion (ie we can not only go left and right, but also up and down). Out of those 4 options, the one shown by both pilots in this case is the best one - going UP. The so called Immelman (loop up) has a bunch of advantages over any other move - Murdr made a good writeup on that http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=186602 .


Only using flat turning (ie turning with your nose moving along the horizon) in a plane would be like drving a car only on N-S roads... you miss out half the possibilities and dont really get anywhere quick. The use of the "vertical" ie the up/down motion is very important.



As Spatula already pointed out, the dive is less for speed (actually, speed will widen your turn if you get too fast) and more for geometrical reasons. It will allow you to start your loop early.
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Offline Husky01

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How to dog fight 1vs1 101.
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2006, 06:52:31 PM »
After watching the film again schatzi i saw exactly what you talked about in the DA when i was turning i was turning left to right try to "go to your plane not your planes 6" by either going up or down and aiming for your high 6 i belive the next 2 flights after that went pretty well schatzi fun DA fights alwaus up for more lessons
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Offline Schatzi

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How to dog fight 1vs1 101.
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2006, 07:03:13 PM »
Youre very welcome Husky. Anytime.

Actually, for a training session, i would recommend the TA - less time of flight and less "takeoff practice".



BTW, you can watch those films from my plane - to see what I saw. Double click my name on the list to the right and make sure you have "recorded views" UNchecked (they are still your views, even if you change plane). Use your numpad to track yourself (like i did).
21 is only half the truth.

Offline humble

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How to dog fight 1vs1 101.
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2006, 07:42:10 PM »
I do think its a good tutorial outlining one set of possibilities....however the realities are that "immelman to immelman" merges are fairly rare....even rarer is the "dual double"....going from there to a vertical scissors is next to never. I.m certainlly far from being the "uber dueler" but often times you simply dont win the "under"...or dotn want it...the opening chandelle "inside" the opponents immelman is an almost certain winner vs the pattern depicted for example. Now the "bogie" can react to the chandelle and convert to a gentler "E opener" and so on....but no single move is unbeatable. Duels are normally won or lost on the "counter-counter"....the guy who thinks he "won the merge" has to react to the guy who thinks he lost the  merge and went to plan "B". His decision and the "losers" re counter normally decide the fight....

The reality is a film is worth a thousand pictures since it allows you to absorb the subtle nuances over time....no two one on one fights are quite the same......

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