Changes to come.

[Edbert]

Originally posted by HomeBoy
Duh!  Am I just too simple in my thinking here?

I don't think so. The issue Dale is trying to solve is not how to give them each what they want and separate them but rather how to combine the two as effectively as possible. There's no right and wrong here, nothing wrong with honing your ACM in the arenas, nothing wrong with flying high buffs and pummeling buildings. The trick is to make the two camps interract with each other rather than try to keep the two camps apart.

Originally posted by indy007
Simple fix for that. 5 minute idle-kick.

Make it ten to fifteen and I'm with you. Been numerous times when I've gone AFK to donate some used beer to the rleif tube intending to be back in 2 minutes  and been snagged by wife-ack. But you guys are right, I suspect it gets even more rampant when a side is about to "win", guys will go to bed or go to work hoping to stay logged into the "winning team" for the reward.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Edbert
I don't think so. The issue Dale is trying to solve is not how to give them each what they want and separate them but rather how to combine the two as effectively as possible. There's no right and wrong here, nothing wrong with honing your ACM in the arenas, nothing wrong with flying high buffs and pummeling buildings. The trick is to make the two camps interract with each other rather than try to keep the two camps apart.

 
Make it ten to fifteen and I'm with you. Been numerous times when I've gone AFK to donate some used beer to the rleif tube intending to be back in 2 minutes  and been snagged by wife-ack. But you guys are right, I suspect it gets even more rampant when a side is about to "win", guys will go to bed or go to work hoping to stay logged into the "winning team" for the reward.

An"idle kick" has been requested over and over again for some time now.
At the earliest probably around when ENY limits were first introduced.

Became more needed after the arena split, even more needed now.

[Quah!]

LOL Overlag and JB88 me thinks it's time for you guys to go on a country tour and make some friends outside of your little realm.  So they didn't role out the red carpet when you switched.  Maybe you should start clearing some others sixes and it will rub off, honestly.

[Donzo]

Originally posted by Kev367th
An"idle kick" has been requested over and over again for some time now.
At the earliest probably around when ENY limits were first introduced.
 

IIRC people sitting in the tower are not taken into account when calculating ENY restictions.  

Only those flying are.

[hitech]

Donzo ENY is based on people in country both tower and in flight. It does not include those waiting.

[Kev367th]

But wouldn't people sitting AFK/idle in the tower still be part of the queue?
[edit] Beat me to it HT, tks.

[indy007]

Yes & no. Just make the idle-kick look @ the "queued" flag, then you have no problem. People just sitting in the tower, that have not queued up, are the only people effected by it.

Oh, and guys sitting in field guns for 45 minutes without firing a shot. They should be kicked out of it at the very least.

[indy007]

Originally posted by Edbert
Make it ten to fifteen and I'm with you. Been numerous times when I've gone AFK to donate some used beer to the rleif tube intending to be back in 2 minutes  and been snagged by wife-ack. But you guys are right, I suspect it gets even more rampant when a side is about to "win", guys will go to bed or go to work hoping to stay logged into the "winning team" for the reward.

You're not the only one. Was even worse before I had a DVR. I've gotten up and walked away before during a merge because a good UFC fight just started.

On a completely unrelated note.. Skuzzy you were 100% right about the DVR. I don't watch TV the same anymore.

[HomeBoy]

Originally posted by Edbert
The issue Dale is trying to solve is not how to give them each what they want and separate them but rather how to combine the two as effectively as possible.

That's the essence of my question.  Why would you want to try to house dogs and cats in the same cage?  You would have to sedate them both to make that work.  Why would you want to do that?  It becomes a control problem and thus the need for ENY, caps, balancing schemes, idle-kick mechanisms, etc., etc., etc.   At the end of the day, do you really think those dogs and cats are enjoying themselves living in that environment?  Seems to me that it's spoiled for both.

Why can't we implement these "G" type controls in the LWO so that the gamers have their environment and let LWB become the old MA?  It's not like the two factions would not be welcome to try the other arenas.  The Gs would just have to understand that if they come in the LWB, they'd better be prepared to be in a war game.  Likewise, the Ws better not go into the LWO and start blowing crap up.  It's all about choices, options.  Why isn't that a good thing?

[Mayhem]

Originally posted by indy007
Simple fix for that. 5 minute idle-kick.

Same problem exists in World of Warcraft pvp arenas. Some people just hop in and come back and wiggle their mouse every few minutes. No actual playing, just standing there earning points. The afk-kick on it is fairly ruthless & fast though.

Our solution was to fold up business cards and jam them into our movement keys when its time for a break.

Ya but there is always going to be something else. Fix the trim on my ch stick and my tank will drive off into the sunset. Next thing we know we have to have webcams pointed at out geer. There are some things you can't fix. Fixing the numbers wount stop you from getting ganged 120 to 60 when the other 2 sides find that attacking you alone is funner then attacking each other and for that there is no fix.

This whole arena ballancing eny stuff is a bit harsh and is overly agressive. There should be an easy middle ground were both sides of the argument get what they want. Mabey even give us a few more tools.

I don't fly AH for the bish knits or rooks. I fly it to be with my squad and my friends. If their gone then there is no longer a reason for me to be an AH any longer. A lot of people feel the same way so I know it's not just me.

[Edbert]

Originally posted by HomeBoy
That's the essence of my question.  Why would you want to try to house dogs and cats in the same cage?  

I think the two camps are not as different as dogs and cats, since one wont literally devour the other...errrr wait a second there...


Seriously though, I think the two camps are much closer together than your analogy would indicate. I would think that everyone here is a avaition fan to some extent, probably been reading about the exploits of WWII aviators since childhood. I am firmly in the fighter group that you call "gamers" and "furballers",  but one big reason I don't fly bombers or drive GVs is becasue I suck arse in them, (I'm only a little better than that in a fighter BTW). Yet I hold no animosity to the other camp and think the arenas and the community would be worse off if there were gone, or segregated in some way.

Guess it biols down, for me, to thinking we are better off with each other than without each other. Only ones I'd like to see fewer of is the ones who wont fight at all unless they have every advantage they can get (aircraft/altitude/numbers) and wont take any risks at all, but you have not mentioned that category of player, and they are a relatively small group, so I'm okay with them hanging around too as long as they don't breed more virtual-chickens...LOL.

FWIW, I think TOD will accomplish some of what you seek, separate the groups to some extent, certainly the styles.

[Donzo]

Originally posted by hitech
Donzo ENY is based on people in country both tower and in flight. It does not include those waiting.

HiTech, is this a true statement?

Players in the tower contribute to the TOTAL number of players online. Once the total number of players online exceeds 200 the ENY logic kicks in. Once kicked in, the ENY logic only looks at the number of people in flight.

[indy007]

Originally posted by Mayhem
Ya but there is always going to be something else. Fix the trim on my ch stick and my tank will drive off into the sunset. Next thing we know we have to have webcams pointed at out geer. There are some things you can't fix. Fixing the numbers wount stop you from getting ganged 120 to 60 when the other 2 sides find that attacking you alone is funner then attacking each other and for that there is no fix.

This whole arena ballancing eny stuff is a bit harsh and is overly agressive. There should be an easy middle ground were both sides of the argument get what they want. Mabey even give us a few more tools.

I don't fly AH for the bish knits or rooks. I fly it to be with my squad and my friends. If their gone then there is no longer a reason for me to be an AH any longer. A lot of people feel the same way so I know it's not just me.

That's a pretty narrow viewpoint.

It's not about fixing the numbers. Imbalances are a symptom of the greater problem, and not the problem itself. The problem itself is the players.

The only effective way to modify the behavior of players to create a fair & balanced game environment is to use draconian measures. Honestly, I believe HTC has gone way too easy on everybody the entire time. I'd personally go with an against-your-will autobalancer. Once all the crybabies quit, you'd have a fresh group of newbies coming in who simply wouldn't know better. They'd accept it as the way it is, and probably generate a crop of better pilots. Yes, I know all about side balancing in games. I've done it as a job for paintball scenario events (200 to 1000+ players @ a given event). I also created the rosters that led to some of the best, and closest scoring games ever. I've told quite a few people "Sorry, creates a skill imbalance, your team can't play with that team for this event."

The difference is, paintball players got over it immediately. No cries, no whines. Everybody recognized it was for the best. I wish that could be here, but there's alot of very vocal, and very selfish AH players.

[HomeBoy]

Originally posted by Edbert
II think the two camps are much closer together than your analogy would indicate.

Fair enough.  

And I am fully aware of these "non-risk takers" you speak of.  I agree that they really don't merit a classification of their own.  

Though I have recogized you as a "gamer" (my term) for some time, I've always felt you were pretty emendable.  I'm not convinced that you represent a majority however.  I hope I'm wrong about that.  There are some very hateful Gs that are relentless in their attacks against anyone who even hints at wanting to play the "war game."  I know that criticism goes both ways.  Thus the "dogs and cats" analogy.

Good discussion.  I really believe this sort of dialog is much more helpful than arguing over how to implement controls on the game.

S!

[Edbert]

Originally posted by HomeBoy
I'm not convinced that you represent a majority however.  

I don't beleive anything I say, think, or do, in-game or out, represents the view of the majority on anything whatsoever. I may be cynical but I've come to terms with being in a perpetual minority on just about everything life offers.

Originally posted by HomeBoy

Good discussion.  I really believe this sort of dialog is much more helpful than arguing over how to implement controls on the game.

I could not agree more, we're supposedly rational adults here...go figure.