Artillery

[Reynolds]

Originally posted by EagleDNY
1.  We don't have the ability to change the charge, and I don't think HT wants to have to model each round / charge package for each piece of artillery.  Even if we are limited to just changing elevation, it would be nice to be able to have more precision with dot commands allowing us to elevate and traverse the guns.  

2.  For ship to shore fire (and vice-versa), we're firing 8" rounds at 18,000 yards and waiting a good number of seconds to be able to see where the shots land to get any sort of correction.  Worse yet, firing on shore from a cruiser, your shots land with a little puff of dirt on shore that is easily missed (rather than a nice HE explosion that you might actually see).  An optical rangefinder, even if on the bridge, would let someone direct fire and call out range estimates to the gunners and give them a chance to correct.

On shore, your rangefinder gives you the initial estimate of how far out the enemy ships are - which is a bit of an equalizer since you are typically outgunned by 9 8" guns to the 1 or 2 in your shore battery.  You still have to actually score hits on a moving, evading target, but as it is now CV groups can steam in right offshore and have a good chance of getting through.  

Optical rangefinders were used by forward observers on land as well.  You put a jeep with a couple of guys on a hill, who pass the range and bearing from their known position back to the battery a few miles back and call out corrections when the fire comes in.  It'd make tank town battles a bit more interesting when the battery of 105s behind the hill starts laying fire on somebody and everybody starts looking for the FO post.  

I don't think HT can model the 'dial in until you get a sharp image' optical rangefinder that was used back then.  I'm hoping more that we can get a crosshair sight (like the bombsight in a B17) that you hold down a key for x seconds on a target to get a range estimate that gets better the longer you hold the key and keep the crosshair on the target.  Once you have your range estimate, you jump into the gunner position and open fire, correcting as necessary.  I think this is a reasonable model for rangefinding, and doesn't create a "laser rangefinder" which puts the shells on target instantly all the time.

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In a jeep, your FO with a rangefinder drives to a hill overlooking your target - he ranges it and finds he is 6.0K out.  You drive up behind him, deploy your artillery with him 4.0K in front of you, dial your elevation up to 10.0K and open fire.  Suddenly, rounds are landing on a town / airfield and your FO is calling out corrections.  The enemy is scrambling IL2s to find your FO and kill him.  Enemy jeeps head up the hill looking to spot your artillery so that they can call in counter-battery fire...

It'd be interesting.

EagleDNY
$.02

WE MUST HAVE THIS!!! I was already excited about this idea but your last 3 paragraphs just sent me OVER!!! I REALLY hope we get this!

[EagleDNY]

Originally posted by Jebus
I like your Idea Eagle with the hold x and range your guns.  An easy solution.  Another thing why have a FO, and a battery person.   Why not just do both with one person.   What do you think about you place your artillery drive to where you can see.  And where ever you park your M3 or Jeep, you can control where your artiliary is going.

I just dont see two guys working together to call in artillery in this game.

If you have a visual on your target, you can just range the guns and then open fire from the gunsight.  I was thinking of "over the horizon" fire while on shore, and illustrating how a team of an FO and an Artillery battery would lay waste to an enemy field.  I think it would be difficult to program an "extended drone" like that - where you drive a towed gun out and drop it off while you drive on.  If you are in a SP gun, then you can drive up the hill yourself (if you like) and lay the fire on from long range if you can see your target.  

For the shore battery example, I'd expect to range my gun on the enemy fleet using the crosshairs, and then have to jump back over to the gunner position to open fire.

The fleet could range guns the same way - each gunner could have a rangefinder they could use and then jump back into the turret for firing, or you could put a single rangefinder on the bridge and have it mannable (and maybe able to slave all the ships unmanned guns in salvo?!?).  

We do get guys working in concert as FO's now - if our CV meets another group, I'll often up a fighter, fly high over the enemy ships and call out the falling shots from the cruiser guns.  It works well over water when you can see the shots falling, but doesn't work on shore (because the little puffs of the shells hitting are hard to see).  

EagleDNY
$.02

[Reynolds]

Originally posted by Jebus
I like your Idea Eagle with the hold x and range your guns.  An easy solution.  Another thing why have a FO, and a battery person.   Why not just do both with one person.   What do you think about you place your artillery drive to where you can see.  And where ever you park your M3 or Jeep, you can control where your artiliary is going.

I just dont see two guys working together to call in artillery in this game.

Im not sure what would be more fun for me to do, spotter or shooter! FO would be a FUN job I think, also, planes like the L-19 and other very lightly armed but fast planes could gain a role as a spotter. It would also FINALLY utilize Jeeps seriously.

[EagleDNY]

Originally posted by MOIL
I like these ideas, could add a new element to the game.

I'd still like to see the ability to set up Flak batteries.

Not the point-n-click like the 5" guns on the ships, but rather a towable/deployable gun like the Flak36.

Something that would require a little time to setup and or be manned by two people.

Food for thought.

Given the changes we're seeing, I'd love to see us have a SP gun with AA capability (I was agitating for the Sdkfz / 88 combo a while back).  The mass bomber raids we are starting to see over airfields (which I LOVE) would be a little more interesting if the enemy was deploying big guns that could hit a bomber instead of ostwinds which can't.  

EagleDNY
$.02

[Debonair]

Originally posted by MWL
umm,  what is a mannable tank trap?  Just curious.  Honest. Not that I don't think you could man concrete.....or a ditch......just why the man?

cause it would be hillarious:mad:

[garethadr]

A mil is a unit of measurement  like a degree is. There are 6400 MILs in a circle. At 1KM from a fixed point looking through binoculars that have a MIL scale in them, There is one Meter between each tick mark on the scale at the 1 KM. If you have a target, to make this easy is we will say it is 10 meters long, and you look at it with your binoculars and it is 10 MIL on the scale, your target is 1KM away, If it is 5MIL on the scale, your target is 2KM. Using this scale system, and converting it to feet and degrees, you already have a system in place to range your targets. you just have to know how big it is.  Though if they gave us a MIL system in this artillery, it would make it alot easier (well for me since I have both been a gunner and an FO for 4.2inch mortars)
Now that the forward observer has a compass direction and a range, he has to pass the info to a or an artillery or mortar gunner. The mortar gunner will have to have a plotting board so they can see all the range corrections the FO is giving them and then be able to turn it so it is orientated to their directionso they can make the proper gun corrections.

There are easier ways though, you could just set up an overlay grid over a town or air strip , ETC, choose a grid like K-7 tell that to the mortar and they can try to shoot close to it and you could adjust from there.

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by Jebus
I just dont see two guys working together to call in artillery in this game.

Took up an FM-2 once off a CV with a buddy on the 8 inch guns.  Basically did an adjust fire mission using corrections straight out of the FM.  There were enemy GV's coming out of their spawn, and we adjusted the guns onto the spawn.  Dispersion of the rounds was pretty horrendous, about 200-400m difference between each salvo.  FC computers on ships were pretty high tech during WWII--when they recommissioned the New Jersey class back in the 80's, it was more cost effective to leave the WWII gear in them and hire some retired vets to teach the gunnersmates how to use 'em.  Anyway, that type of dispersion is pretty bad, it should be better if the land mode actually works as advertised since ship's movement, coreolis, weather, etc. were computed by the FC computer.  Of course, with 16" vs. 8", I guess you could get into that "horseshoes and handgrenades" argument.  I don't know what ECR for either are, but I know the New Jersey class could be more precise than that...

Speaking of which, all they would need to do is use the land mode or sea mode already set up for naval guns for range and azimuth adjustments.  Sea mode could be used for direct lay, and land mode for indirect.  Land mode gives you left/right corrections in meters vs. mils, but there is a range function as well.

My two cents.

[nickf620]

i think it would take the anger out of being killed in a tank i mean come on


you are driving along in a tank and all the sudden bam you are in the tower
to squadies: what the heck was that
squadies:dude a piece of concrete just fell out of the sky and hit you

haha

[MOIL]

Jebus:
I just dont see two guys working together to call in artillery in this game.

Obviously you don't know who LTAR is:D

EagleDNY:
Given the changes we're seeing, I'd love to see us have a SP gun with AA capability (I was agitating for the Sdkfz / 88 combo a while back). The mass bomber raids we are starting to see over airfields (which I LOVE) would be a little more interesting if the enemy was deploying big guns that could hit a bomber instead of ostwinds which can't

Exactly, I'd be nice to throw some shells up at attacking bomber groups, the manned ack and osties just can't reach um.

Good ideas tho

[T99LMG]

I was always luck with artillary guns on ships but not mountes on land.
It was cool how i shot them down. I would give the film, but it's on my laptop.

[mussie]

I got shot down by a panzer  the other day.

I was circling a field in a KI67 using it as a make shift AC-47....

I saw this panzer fire its main gun and the shell streaking towards me then BANG I was gone...

Part of me wanted to salute him.. THe other just said KILL KILL KILL

[Tilt]

Graphics and object for a mannable 88mm  field gun were done in AH1.......... Model obviously exists for its HE & AP elements...........

5" ship mounted piece has AA & HE rounds now and can be fired in land mode to pepper a target that is out of visual range..............

For me these would be towed to a location and deployed............ the towing vehicle (m3 or truck) would carry the ordinance and the crew.

If we stayed with the M3 for example the towed guns become loadout options

During deployment the gun is dug in and camoflaged