Author Topic: Kermit and the glowing B17 (Read 1646 times)

SkyChimp03 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 27, 2006, 04:07:18 PM »

IE this is my American Beauty highlights

Krusty · « **Reply #16 on:** December 27, 2006, 07:22:42 PM »

Too dull, IMO chimp. These birds weren't grey. They were highly reflective silver-colored aluminum. Even when dirty they still glowed in the slightest hint of light. On a bright day you can see a BMF plane miles and miles and MILES away because it's got a huge gleam of light coming off of it.

Here are some modern-day pictures of Sentimental Journey.
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/601-700/walk629_B-17_Murphy/03.jpg
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/601-700/walk629_B-17_Murphy/06.jpg
In this one you can see the ground, the sky, another plane, all very clearly in the reflected surface.
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/601-700/walk629_B-17_Murphy/09.jpg
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/601-700/walk629_B-17_Murphy/14t.jpg
(photos from ARC walkaround section)

Citabria · « **Reply #17 on:** December 27, 2006, 09:53:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Too dull, IMO chimp. These birds weren't grey. They were highly reflective silver-colored aluminum. Even when dirty they still glowed in the slightest hint of light. On a bright day you can see a BMF plane miles and miles and MILES away because it's got a huge gleam of light coming off of it.

wrong wrong and wrong again. theres this stuff... its called aluminum oxide. its rust. rust that protects the aluminum and it can conspire with dust and dirt and grime to make for one very unshiny airplane.

every warbird you see is shined and spit shined and shined again even the semi unshiny ones are shined.

get back to me after you take a good long look at some bare metal frieght haulers, had several metroliners bare metal come into the airport regularly hauling frieght on contract as feeders for the UPS hub in Columbia, South Carolina (CAE). look at some of those or some nasty beat up check runners that fly through hell every day thunderstorms and all and never get cleaned or shined up.
after youve sat on the wing of one for a spell while fueling them over and over and looked at that bastard so long it makes your eyes water you will see just how dull aluminum can get.

next person that posts a pic of a warbird shined with a diaper or says an american airlines 757 10 miles away is what a beat to hell natural aluminum airplane looks like will get a doorbell ring and a personally delivered bag of flaming dog crap anonymously delivered to their front door.

btw I made the default B17 skin to look and shine like the plane it was modeled after. after that many missions it still had a shine but it was subdued just like the one in game is and the AH default b17g is still damn shiny

Reynolds · « **Reply #18 on:** December 27, 2006, 10:17:42 PM »

Yay! Collecting photos is about to pay off! But... wait... THEYRE AT MY OTHER HOUSE

alright, I have about 12-15 color pictures of B-17Gs in COMBAT, from what I remember, Krusty is right. These are VERY shiney planes. However, I cannot get you my library until tuesday to back this up.

Citabria · « **Reply #19 on:** December 27, 2006, 10:26:29 PM »

were they dull and dirty like this after 83 missions?
now go look at my default b17g skin after looking at these pics
and tell me if they shine the same.
and yes this is "A Bit O Lace" same plane thats in the game.

Reynolds · « **Reply #20 on:** December 27, 2006, 11:41:29 PM »

Yes, the default skin is ALMOST ideal, but I think it should be a tad bit shineyer. As you can see, the top side is still quite reflective, however the default is so close to perfection I wouldnt complain. But that is after 83 missions. On tuesday ill post my pictures. However, krusty's IS way to shiney.

Krusty · « **Reply #21 on:** December 28, 2006, 12:43:28 AM »

I actually think the default is too washed out, metal wise. It looks too much like ... it's hard to explain. Mind you this is entirely subjective, but it looks like there's too much noise on it. Noise is good, it breaks up the constant colors, but it looks like there's too much.

Fester, the first picture is really hard to look at (grainy) but look at the second one you posted. The fuselage has nary a ding or dent on it along the entire tail, and despite it being a tad blurry there's a pretty constant glare moving up to the cabin area (the Sun is towards the tail, going by the shadows, so maybe that's why it's not so reflective on the forward fuselage).

I've sat in many a plane seat looking out over the wing. I seem to get wing seats a lot. Despite the oil and grime and residue, the overall look is still that of a shiny surface. You can still see the color of the sky in it. You can still see light reflection. I've looked at some while waiting in airports as well and it seems the bulk of the "muck" is below, as it drips downward. I've recently seen some photos of a Super Connie's engine areas, it's a total mess. The upper surfaces seem fairly clean though.

Don't get me wrong, you wipe a white cloth on the surface it will come back pure black. However at the scale and size we're talking about you honestly can't see it. It's like the dust on your TV screen. You can have a watermelon load of it if you wipe a cloth over it, but when you're watching TV you don't notice it unless somebody draws a smiley face on it.

Krusty · « **Reply #22 on:** December 28, 2006, 12:46:05 AM »

Also as of 2 days ago I'm tweaking the levels on "Ruby's" to see if I can't come up with a better solution. If I can I'll resubmit, but it's complex due to the way the layers are composed and the way I did gradients on single layers instead of on multiple (I was maxed out to 50 layers, in PS 5 I can't use more than 50, so I had to compact some)

Roscoroo · « **Reply #23 on:** December 28, 2006, 01:42:22 AM »

the bright shiny new aluminum would hold up for the first couple of months and then it would start to oxidize and go dull without proper up keep .

thats about how long our polished eng cowlings held up on the wc-135's I worked on while in the AF . FYI

take a look thru the coloured pics of the b-29's

Citabria · « **Reply #24 on:** December 28, 2006, 06:12:19 PM »

you have to remember that to work within the ancient limitations of the 3d game engine there must be a compromise made between painted surfaces and metal surfaces. my default b17G is about as shiny as you can get before the glare and shine overwhelm the painted areas and make the whole thing look strange. this is why it helps that the plane is beat to hell so the metal and the paint can be made to look accurate at the same time.

you guys might be misunderstanding me when i talk about shine. I am talking about mirror chrome finish you see on highly polished warbirds and old car bumpers.

your not gonna find that on planes getting used in the field even brand new ones. its gonna be natural aluminum in various states of oxidation and grime and dirt.

look at the large picture of Bit O Lace... notice how much shinier the new cheyenne tail turret is compared to the rest of the plane which as far as aluminum goes is pretty damn dull. dont misunderstand it still has to look as metalic as you can get it its just which metalic look your going for will cause issues one way or the other.

and personally I think none of it is going to look truely metallic till a more complex rendering engine is aquired by HTC.

Krusty · « **Reply #25 on:** December 28, 2006, 07:13:31 PM »

Looking at individual colors on "Ruby's" it doesn't look like they're very abnormal. I think what might be giving it this look is the way they contrast next to each other (dark vs light highlights painted on the surface).

I'm currently trying to soften the contrast by lowering the brightness and slightly lowering the contrast. I have to do it across the board on the finished bitmap because of the layer setup. I can't tweak highlights individually anymore. So now it's a matter of taking off the shine but not the red and black and other details. I'll post some screenshots when I get any good results.

Citabria · « **Reply #26 on:** December 28, 2006, 07:58:58 PM »

as far as your skin goes turn down the luminosity to a normal level in the material file.

thats the reason your plane glows in the dark.

basically maxed out luminosity cancels out the lighting effects or makes them look strange.

Kermit de frog · « **Reply #27 on:** December 28, 2006, 11:55:41 PM »

I know nothing about skinning, but I'm going to post my opinion anyway.

I think Fester's idea is on the right path.

Krusty · « **Reply #28 on:** December 29, 2006, 01:53:16 AM »

I'll screw around with the materials as well. However I don't relish rebuilding my cache every time I use the skin viewer

B@tfinkV · « **Reply #29 on:** December 30, 2006, 02:21:59 PM »

i have to agree with citabria, and looking at that big pic of bit o lace shows his point without doubt.

we are not flying representations of museum exibits and airshow stars, we are flying representations of planes that lived in dirt, flew through hell everyday, and barely had time for repair, re-fueling and re-arming between days.

some of my very favorite skins ingame are the ones that you can tell the creator put alot of thought and love into. no mirrored wings, no perfect paint job.

on the right wing i notice a mark from an old bullet hole and paint peeled away from the gun mountings, on the left wing is a big brown stain and the foot marks of the ground crew who climb over it every day.

some of the best displayed and presented skins, no doubt hugely talented works of art, look the most cartoony ingame.

that being said, every single skin submitted is a great effort put in to enhance the game for all, and i thank everyone who has ever submitted a skin for thier work.