side balancing redux again

[Simaril]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
After a lengthy and long winded crusade in the name of fun, fair, and balanced gameplay, I have only this to say.

 "Side Balancing" is just a term on the Country Status page of the clipboard. If HT wanted equal numbers, we'd have them.

Pointed, but honest. Can't argue with that.

[Edbert]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
"Side Balancing" is just a term on the Country Status page of the clipboard. If HT wanted equal numbers, we'd have them.

yes, and no....

I don't think he's given up on it, nor do I think that exactly evenly numbered sides are his (or anyone's) goal. There's more to making the game fun than simply having 100 v 100 v 99 in the arenas, the gamerz will find a way to play without risking an actual "fair fight" somehow, no matter what.

You saw the apoplexy caused, heard the screams of anguish, read the false threats made by "paying customers/CEOs" when he experimented with balancing measures. The incessant whiners made their point and got the balancing measures stopped, they are also making the point crystal clear that their idea of fun is being on the side with 20 players who are attacking the side with 2 players, it is not even the subject of debate, we've all seen it. I liked the blue line best of all taken as a single measure, but in my opinion the best solution is a combination of many smaller steps taken as a whole. Limit sorties with the tower-queue, limit plane choice, cut fuel/ord/ammo capacity, make the underpopulated team's fields indestructible...etc. Do it all at once and we can have an fair fight even with lopsided numbers.

The question does remain though, what will the next step be, and when will it be implemented? IMO "something" has to be done, because leaving the choice of how to run the assylum in the hands of "the cutomers" is clearly a path to ruin.

[thndregg]

Originally posted by Simaril
I like being outnumbered some too.

There comes point when it stops being fun, though. We played a couple hours, and we tried a lot of combinations. I died my share upping from a nearly capped base. I flew in from the next base, and got swarmed. I tried intercepting the stream of attackers, 1 v however many came...and got to fight some. But, after a kill, either I got jumped by an ace (Why are "big names" attacking against the outnumbered side? For the challenge?), or I'd get jumped by numbers of weaker ones.

I took a lot on the chin, and well, it stopped being fun.

When I said "find a fight", I meant "find a place to have fun." I dont mind dying, but if there isnt a time when I get to give some back there isnt much joy in it.

Agreed, Sim. No chance, no point.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by whels
even if sides say are even 50 50 50, the way the arenas have been going, like LW Blue,  Knits fighting both fronts,  bish rook maybe 5 10 guys fighting each other. the rest all on knits. so   even with =#s the sides are imbalanced whenthey dont fight evenly.  all day today both maps, Knit been fighting aroun 100 total enemy with about 45 on =s no fun map after map after map.

Whels, I hate this more than anything.   I've noticed it while going as a Rook.   I completely understand your frustration.

[Zanth]

Originally posted by Killjoy2
flying P38-J's against Bish Spit 14's and it will all even out.

That wouldn't be very fair to the SP14's though would it?

[scottydawg]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
Whels, I hate this more than anything.   I've noticed it while going as a Rook.   I completely understand your frustration.

I also have noticed the Rooks and Bishops ganging the Knights on a regular basis. Is there something going on?  I can't believe that so many people would be interested in spoiling the game for one side.

[indy007]

Originally posted by scottydawg
I also have noticed the Rooks and Bishops ganging the Knights on a regular basis. Is there something going on?  I can't believe that so many people would be interested in spoiling the game for one side.

That's not how it's seen from the other side, and that's the problem.

People want easy mode, and 16 guys vulching is very easy, and nobody cares if you're having fun or not except for, theoretically, HTC.

[BaldEagl]

Side balancing and ganging have been issues as long as there have been 3 countries.  In the days of Air Warrior I the BZ and the CZ were always ganging on the AZ.  We (AZ) used to always joke about our target rich environments.  In the end I think it just made all the AZ better pilots.  We could effectively defend or attack with inferior numbrs and almost always win.

For almost 2 years in AH I the Rooks and the Knights were always ganging on the Bish.  I'd send out messages on Ch. 200; Why are you dweebs HELPING the other dweebs WIN?  I always wondered why numbers didn't equalize over time but then realized that all the noobs, frustrated by their dillema as a Bish would switch countries for safety's sake.  That meant that now we, as Bish were mostly vets fighting large numbers of noobs.  Fair enough for me.

About a year ago Bish and Knights were contantly ganging Rooks.  Our numbers were up.  I'd look around me and see more noobs than before.  Were these the guys I wanted to trust my wing to?  I found myself on country channel pleading; Why are we HELPING those other dweebs WIN?  The noobs didn't know any better.  They stuck together in gangs for safety oblivious to the larger strategies involved.

Now the Bish and Rooks are ganging Knights.  Bish have gained more numbers.  Bish have a lot of noobs.  Thankfully they seem to better understand the objectives of winning the war, not giving it away.  Now I'm being constantly shot down by veteran aces and an occasional noob in a furball.

Add squads (and missions) to this.  Yesterday I decided to join a mission for a change.  We took off with ~20 flights of B-26's and a dozen P-51's.  We totally flattened 2 enemy bases.  Now I guess joining a mission is joining the hoard.  I do admit it was sort of fun to be a part of watching the uncoordinated enemy try to figure out how/if they dared to attack us.

The point is this.  It's always been there, will probably always be there, and will likely (no, surely) change over time (who's the underdog).  All you can do is roll with it and hope it makes you better along the way.

and have fun.

[Simaril]

I understand what you're saying, Eagle, but there is a point where normal imbalance becomes dysfunctional.


It seems to me that when the lowest side throws in the towel, and switches to the high side just to have SOME fun -- well, the imbalanced situation has become self perpetuating.

And if imbalance ---> NO fun for the low side ----> low siders log off or switch countries ---> more imbalance....

well, the cycle isn't called "vicious" for nothing. And isn't that what's already happening?

[Tilt]

IMO what we have now is the best we have ever had cos it does not matter if the sides are unbalanced or not.

Two sides are not rolling over the other one all night and (over time)conflict is spread across the three sides even when there is imbalance.

Of course it is doubtful that  the side with the smallest population will not win the reset............

I see far more one sided conflicts due to local imbalance in numbers than there are re arena imbalance. Further even that changes from time to time swinging one way or the other even when there is arena wide imbalance.

Eny system has never worked IMO (IE it never redistributed players to any significant extent) it did provide the  players of the smaller populated country with an "edge".............

[1Boner]

Originally posted by Yeager
I was in MW a few night back and two squads were playing rook and numbered 18.  The bish numbered 4 and the nits numbered 2.  Guess what team the rooks were bashing

The evening would have been alot more enjoyable had one squad changed over.  As it was I had to listen to these prepube rooktards boast about capturing undefended fields.  Geeks like that really drive home the need to force side balancing.  Squads have a duty to help the game along, not hurt it.  Its in the best interest of squads to help balance the game, not knock it off its axis.

My proposal: Limit squads to ten players each and do not allow affiliation between squads. [/QUOTE


so then what if those squadies still all fly together. they just don,t have a squad name hangin over their heads?

squads aren,t the problem here.

whiners are the problem here.

this game will never be perfect.

these complaints are gettin reeeeeal old!!!!


how are you gonna stop people from flyin together???

thats the main reason alot of guys fly in here!!!!

stop affiliation between wings???

what you gonna do?---say --you guys can,t hang around together????

brilliant!!!!



                               patiently awaiting another brilliant comment,

                                                                                                       Boner





official "member" of the AH  bbs.

public relations officer for Boner



not alot of guys in the mw arena????   thats a real shocker!!!!!

[Shuffler]

Well since it's not the games fault... but the users.. maybe some will read this and even up.

[SunKing]

official "member" of the AH  bbs.

public relations officer for Boner



shocker!!!!! [/B]

Now that's orginal!

[SteveBailey]

Yesterday I decided to join a mission for a change. We took off with ~20 flights of B-26's and a dozen P-51's. We totally flattened 2 enemy bases. Now I guess joining a mission is joining the hoard. I do admit it was sort of fun to be a part of watching the uncoordinated enemy try to figure out how/if they dared to attack us.

That was cool to watch.  A squaddie warned me you guys were on the way and your alt so I grabbed like heck and found myself to be THE lone plane above about 60 B24's and a dozen or so mustangs.  It was a cool sight!  I don't know about coordinated.. heck I don't know about defense... you guys rolled over everything.  I managed to land 7 kills but it did nothing to slow the assault.  Still, was cool to see that big formation lumbering towards me. By the time the 24's arrived on target all the stangs were well below them so I had freee shots at buffs as they made their runs.  I didn't have enough bullets to go around and ended up watching helplessly as you took the base. It's great to see organization like that.  i don't consider that a horde, FWIW. Fun stuff!

Steve

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
That was cool to watch.  A squaddie warned me you guys were on the way and your alt so I grabbed like heck and found myself to be THE lone plane above about 60 B24's and a dozen or so mustangs.  It was a cool sight!  I don't know about coordinated.. heck I don't know about defense... you guys rolled over everything.  I managed to land 7 kills but it did nothing to slow the assault.  Still, was cool to see that big formation lumbering towards me. By the time the 24's arrived on target all the stangs were well below them so I had freee shots at buffs as they made their runs.  I didn't have enough bullets to go around and ended up watching helplessly as you took the base. It's great to see organization like that.  i don't consider that a horde, FWIW. Fun stuff!

Steve

That was a different mission last night.  We did the same thing on the other side of the map during the day with B-26's.