P-47 In a Co-E, Co-Alt Fight

[Stoney74]

This is a carry over from another thread, but the question begs:

What is the proper method to fight the Jug without being called an alt monkey, cherry picker, gang banger, et al?

I'll give a couple of typical match-ups and am looking for responses about tactics in each example, plus any general tactical points for the jug.  If you feel it necessary, include differences for the D11, D25/40, and N models:

P-47 vs. LA-7

P-47 vs. 109K4

P-47 vs. Spit 16

P-47 vs. Hurri II

P-47 vs. F4U-1A

P-47 vs. P-38

P-47 vs. P-51

This should be interesting...

[Reynolds]

Does he see you yet?

If not, get below him, and approach from below, in any plane, so you remain in his blind spot. Sneak up to 200 yds and fire.

[Wolfala]

P-47 vs. LA-7

0-5k, co-alt - 1 pass and haul ass.
5-10k, co-alt - initial pass,haul in the vertical - each pass, keep bringing him upstairs and scissors him to death.
10-15k, co-alt - initial pass, same process as 5-10k.
15-20k, co-alt, initial pass, same as 5-10k except laugh as his engine wheezes and he tries to maintain high alpha all the time. Proceed to shower him with 50cal Christmas presents.

P-47 vs. 109K4

0-5k, co-alt - 1 pass and haul ass. Don't bother unless you got him distracted and can get a good angle for a kill shot.
5-10k, co alt - initial pass, haul into vertical to get nose on quickly - if he's slow you'll close the gap and nail his cockpit - if he's quick take a front quarter shot sliding using rudder looking for the engine or empenage.
10-15k, co-alt - Same as 5-10k, except you have more space to scissor him to death.
15-20k, co-alt - all the above, except you can have fun for a change.

P-47 vs. Spit 16

All altitudes - hit hard, ONCE and get out.

P-47 vs. Hurri II

0-5k, co-alt - extend and climb - fight in the vertical.
5-10, co-alt - same as 0-5k
10-15k co-alt - initial pass, long slow climb over top, wait for him to nose up and stall out - laugh, and do the dirty.
20k+ same as before

P-47 vs. F4U-1A

TBD - tired

P-47 vs. P-38

TBD - tired

P-47 vs. P-51

TBD - need a drink

[bozon]

ok, this is how I break it down. I fly all models basically the same:

P-47 vs. LA-7
You can't run away, you can't win an E fight, you can't rope it so:
Go in guns blazing, out 1-2 notches of flaps, chop throttle and knife fight the dweeb in it.

P-47 vs. 109K4
You can't run away, you can't win an E fight, you can't rope it so:
Go in guns blazing, out 1-2 notches of flaps, chop throttle and knife fight the dweeb in it.

P-47 vs. Spit 16
You can't run away, you can't win an E fight, you can't rope it so:
Go in guns blazing, out 1-2 notches of flaps, chop throttle and knife fight the dweeb in it.

P-47 vs. Hurri II
YEY! this one you CAN outrun and out zoom.
Go in guns blazing, keep the speed up, dive to high speed to bleed its E and zoom above it. This is the only case in which it works.

P-47 vs. F4U-1A
You can't run away, you can't rope it so:
Go in guns blazing, out 1-2 notches of flaps, chop throttle, knife fight and hope the other guy is an idiot.

P-47 vs. P-38
Speeds about equal, don't try to out zoom it.
Go in guns blazing, out 1-2 notches of flaps, chop throttle, knife fight and use a lot of rolling manuvers. Never get your nose too high.

P-47 vs. P-51
Go in guns blazing, out 1-2 notches of flaps, chop throttle and knife fight the dweeb in it.


This basically sums up my range of tactics.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by bozon
This basically sums up my range of tactics.

Heh.  I agree with Bozon.  However, you may be surprised how well the 47 does in a close-in fight with clever use of flaps.  With the exception of the D40, and maybe the N (I've only flown the N a few times), don't bother trying to climb a lot once you're engaged.  Use nose-down turns instead (until you run out of alt - then just work to keep your speed over 200).  Also, unlike the lighter planes, throttle control won't help you very much, so keep it wide open.  You've got lots and lots of ammunition, don't hesitate to spray it around.

- oldman

[bj229r]

N can run away from 16, not sure about 1a

[Platano]

Originally posted by Stoney74
This is a carry over from another thread, but the question begs:

What is the proper method to fight the Jug without being called an alt monkey, cherry picker, gang banger, et al?

I'll give a couple of typical match-ups and am looking for responses about tactics in each example, plus any general tactical points for the jug.  If you feel it necessary, include differences for the D11, D25/40, and N models:

P-47 vs. LA-7

P-47 vs. 109K4

P-47 vs. Spit 16

P-47 vs. Hurri II

P-47 vs. F4U-1A

P-47 vs. P-38

P-47 vs. P-51

This should be interesting...

Would you like to go the DA and film me?

[VooWho]

When I fly the P47 and I get into a turn fight, I perform the High Yo-Yo which means I'm trading energy for altitude, but I end up making a sharper turn, then I drop down on my opponent from high and blaze him with my 8 .50in machine guns. This tatic works best when your at high speeds, or you know you can't out turn your enemy.

I also perform the Low Yo-Yo. I use this if I'm at stalling speed. I just drop my nose and follow my opponents turn. In this manuever I'm gaining more speed, but that makes my turning wider. Once I get enough speed I pop back up and shoot his belly.

[Knegel]

Originally posted by Stoney74
............................... without being called an alt monkey, cherry picker, gang banger, et al?

Simply play with people who can handle a P47 and specialy who are able to check their six and of course dont fly a La7 and Spit16. .

To call someone alt monkey etc is like complaing that a Spit and Zero pilot turn.  "Hey you turn monkey, stop to cowardly turn away all the time!" lol

Otherwise the P47 will have problems vs most of the listed planes, if they get flown well, simply cause they all tend to climb better. And of course its a absolut valid tactic to outlimb the Jug, same like its a valid tactic to outturn it in a Spit and to outmanouver it by using the rollratio in a 190.
VS the HurriII the Jugpilot only can try to gain distance, outclimb it and then B/Z it to death. If a P47 pilot call a Hurri pilot altmonkey, he simply dont know to make a sencefull fight, where the ability to spot a enemy early and disengaging is a very important part.

Greetings,

Knegel

[bozon]

People will call you alt monkey because the fat-ass 47 totaly out class their uber 380-mph-on-the-deck rides, when the fight is at 25 kft. I would say it also out class them at 30 kft, if only they were able to reach it.

[Knegel]

He he, no matter if you will fight the P47 or if you wanna fight in it, there are no alt monkeys!! There are only greedy pilots who forget to check their altitude and "6" cause this greed. Later they complain that they cant make a decent dogfight cause the alt monkeys and cherry pickers. lol

If someone want to make a 1 vs 1, he should start a H2H game where only 2 can take part.

Cherrypickers shoot down already attacked planes, instead of the other attacker.
Cherrypickers shoot to planes in low level while, short before and short after take off/landing.
Cherrypickers shoot down planes, already damaged by others.

Of course this is only bad in a "mayhem" game, in a teamgame we call this teamfight.

[XAKL]

I love the Jug but I don't fly them in MA.  I only fly them in Axis vs Allies Room when the Rhineland map is on.  There u can auto start at 18 or 19k.  Only then can u appreciate what this beast can unleash onto the German Fighters.  I use them as Zemke had prescribed, "Boom and Zoom".   Only problem is that most German fighters try their best to drag me down deck.   I don't care what anyone, even the best Jug pilots say how they can shoot down from scissoring, high Yo Yo's, low Yo Yo's, unless u have alt advantage cannot be done, if u have co-alt with co E.   Of course having 4 guys who fly the jug at hi-alt to alternate helps too.  I still think Jugs in this game are not hardened enough.   The damage model for Jugs is too light.


SINKER